Replies

1. 
   DCarr10760 | Sep 14, 2005 03:47pm | #1

   Hi Chris,

   Sounds to me like you did everything right, you just didn't go far enough.

   The next step would be to buff, buff, buff.  To really get that count-your-nose-hairs shine, get out the rottenstone and elbow-grease again, or get a buffing-wheel and some of the more modern polishing compounds.

   Constantines is a good source:

   http://216.105.59.114/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=269

   But there are many others.  Luthiers Merchantile sells lots of compounds used in the guitar making industry where mirror polishing is brought to a high art.

   http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts.asp?CategoryName=Buffing&NameProdHeader=Menzerna+Dry+Polishing+Compound

   Be careful the shine don't hurt your eyes!

   Best Regards,

   David C

   Sorry about all the edits, I had to correct spelling and links... DC

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   Edited 9/14/2005 8:52 am ET by DCarr10760

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   Edited 9/14/2005 9:03 am ET by DCarr10760

   
   

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   Edited 9/14/2005 9:06 am ET by DCarr10760

2. 
   hammer1 | Sep 14, 2005 05:01pm | #2

   The process you have described is very laborious. Just like honing a plane blade, it takes more work for the next finer grit to remove the previous scratches. Each successive grit also removes part of the finish. If you have ever seen a custom auto painter block out a finish, they only make one careful stroke with abrasive paper, not a back and forth motion. If you need to use a coarse paper to remove dust nibs, you don't want to overdo it. Scratches are what make the finish satin in appearance.

   There is a difference between professional finishes and those you buy off the hardware store shelf, also a difference between brands. Spraying in a controlled environment helps to eliminate many of the problems that a brush or rag applied finish causes. You don't have to start with such coarse abrasives, so, there aren't deep scratches to remove in the process.

   A fairly quick way to get a great finish is to start with as fine a grit as possible and keep the sanding action to a minimum. Used paper can reduce the depth of the scratches. Remove any residue and work the surface with #0000 steel wool. This is a very fine abrasive and should be worked with the grain, not in a circular motion. I follow the steel wool with a low speed auto buffer and a polishing compound. I'm getting nice results with a terry bonnet and 3M Finesse it II. The last step is a wax, applied thinly in a linear motion and buffed, also in a straight line. I like American clear paste wax.

   Everyone has their preferred methods, materials and critical eye. Surface preparation is very important. Pigmented stains can leave a surface muddy looking and BLO will continually darken and obscure the grain over time. Porous woods will need either a sanding sealer or pore filler to get the glass look. Some woods like oak, will separate at the grain and aren't worth the effort. Many pieces will look great with just the steel wool and wax. The higher the level of the finish, the more little defects will show. Perfection is very hard to achieve.

   http://www.kingdomrestorations.com/catalog_g37.html?catId=5272

   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

3. 
   Rich14 | Sep 14, 2005 08:05pm | #3

   Chris,

   I'm glad you have joined the ranks of those who realize that it is necessary to "finish the finish." Simply applying a film to the surface of wood is not enough. It must be rubbed out and the secret (if there is any) to rubbing out is to allow the film to completely dry first. This may take several weeks to a month, and the difference of just one week with certain films can make a world of difference. I would not "final rub" varnish for at least a month.

   The only exception to the rubbing out process, is that very skilled finishers can apply one last thin film of spray lacquer (after the previous one has been rubbed to perfection) leaving an unblemished mirror finish. But such a final application is more likely in automotive finishes than woodworking).

   While pumice and rottenstone have been the traditional methods of getting the high gloss shine, they are truly obsolete in the modern world of abrasive products. They are unpredictable and much less uniform than that which can be had at any Ace hardware or similar store. You need 3 products: automotive rubbing compound, polishing compound and swirl removal.

   After getting your surface absolutely uniform with a matte scratch pattern working up through 400 grit, 600 grit and 4-0 steel wool, apply the rubbing compound, again the goal is an absolutely uniform matte appearance at that abrasive size. Then polishing compound with the same goal. You may find that either of these gives you the level of finish you want. Or go to the swirl remover. It will result in the "mirror finish" you may be after.

   However, some workers find the swirl remover finished surface "too fine." You may be surprised that some finishes that you thought were "mirror bright" actually are not. Go to a piano store. Those beauties look like they have liquid glass sprayed on. But on high-quality instruments, if you look at the finish from a low angle, with the light behind the surface, you will see the fine scratch pattern applied by the finisher's loving hand at about the abrasive size of polishing compound.

   Rich

1. 
   ChrisB | Sep 15, 2005 01:55am | #5

   Rich,

   Thanks for the heads up on curing time.

   OK, I know where to find rubbing compound and polishing compound but what the heck is swirl remover? Would you please name a brand and source?  The local NAPA parts store maybe?

   Chris

1. 
   Elcoholic | Sep 15, 2005 02:45am | #7

   I use McGuires Swirl Remover on my black car.  Works great, but I haven't tried it on furniture but will shortly.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   The more things change ...

   We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized.  I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.

   Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Sep 15, 2005 03:06am | #8

   Not a criticism but it's Meguiar's Swirl Remover.  Just for those who may go looking for it.  While best applied with a power buffer, it can be sucessfully applied by hand. 

   Go here for info:  http://www.autobarn.net/meswre16oz.htmlHowie.........

2. 
   Rich14 | Sep 15, 2005 08:55pm | #9

   Chris,

   Ace Hardware, NAPA. Any place that stocks rubbing and polishing compound in the section with auto finish care products should have it. I've used various brands. Swirl Remover is simply a finer abrasive than polishing compound. I don't know the grit size, but the scratch pattern is way below the size that the eye can see, hence it gives a mirror-like finish.

   But the finish really needs to be cured and needs to have the inherent hardness to benefit. Shellac and lacquer easily qualify. So do some varnishes, but they take a long time to get hard enough. The last varnish I tried it on was Varathane water borne "Crystal." It took a month until high polishing worked.

   Rich

4. 
   WillGeorge | Sep 14, 2005 08:49pm | #4

   AND you couod save some time and use Rottonstone and Oil or water...

   Not sure I can post in here..

   Ask the little lady to show you her favorite panties...

   You take them when she is not looking.. Rub down the finish with them.. Ya be amazied what silk or Cotton 'well worm' will do!

   REALLY!

   Edited 9/14/2005 1:54 pm ET by WillGeorge

   Well worn... I never coulds spells..

   Or just a cotton 'CLEAN" cotton/nylon/rayon rag with a lub of your choice for the finish you used..

   A Lube is usually not needed.. I do that and sort of like Glass..

   But I don't see well at my age.. Finger touch tells you ALOT!

   
   

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   Edited 9/14/2005 2:00 pm ET by WillGeorge

5. 
   artd10 | Sep 15, 2005 02:21am | #6

   I mostly spray precat lacquer and after about two weeks I use a card scraper to remove any dust nibs,oversprays,etc. I then go directly to pumice powder and BLO. It does not take long to get a uniform surface. The pumice must be completely removed before moving on to rottenstone and BLO. These steps give me the finish I want. For a glossier finish, substitute water for the BLO. Good Luck, Art 

1. 
   WillGeorge | Sep 16, 2005 02:59am | #10

   pumice must be completely removed before moving on to rottenstone I guess I missed a step.. I'll try the pumice first..