I have done French polishing, and have filled pores in a variety of ways, and rubbed out shellac with pumice and rottenstone, and have also tried Meguires automotive compounds with power buffing, and have never been satisfied that I got the high gloss dinging room table to, see-yourself-in-the mirror finish that I am looking for. I tried hand sanding to 2500 grit automotive paper and it looks pretty good, but is still semigloss. Does anyone hae experience with power sanding with micromesh? It comes in 1500, 2000, 3000, 4000, 6000, 8000 and 12,000 grit, and has a hook and loop backing for an orbital sander ( from woodworker’s supply). Is this worthwhile? If so, is it better to use parafin oil or water as a lubticant? Thanks.
Jay
Replies
Jay,
I have used the Abralon pads made by Mirka abrasives up to 4000 grit on varnish with parrafin oil cut 50% with mineral spirits then polished with 3-M rubbing compounds. The finish was very shiny, I would call it an extreme high polish.
For shellac I still use pumice and rottenstone and parrafin oil. Gets very shiny but not too shiny. I would call it a deep gloss. I do the rubbing out after I french polish. It is one of my favorite finishes for high style furniture.
I have used the abralon pads on shellac with good success, but still tend to use the pumice and rottenstone.
I think you would be suprised with the finish you get from the pads. They do work well. Use oil for rubbing shellac, not water.
How long are you letting your finish cure before rubbing out?
J.P.
Because I work intermittently, on the weekends, and then have family things distracting me, it's often a week or more. This time it will be closer to 10 days. The micromesh is similar to abralon. If I use my orbital sander, whcih is what is intended (They are hook and loop backed), would you use a very slow speed or wehat would you recommend?
Jay
Jay,I think the micromesh and abralon are basically the same thing. A cool thing about this product is that you can clean them after using them so they tend to last a good long time. I used slow speed with the 1000 and 2000 and turned it up to the middle for the 4000.After 4000 I don't know what you have to gain as far as the polish but 4000 is as far as I have ever gone.J.P.http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com
Have you had any of the difficulties described below by comets?
Jay
Jay,The Abralon pads are 6" discs which I use with my 5" sander or I just use a cork rubbing block and hand rub. I have not had any problems with the Abralon pads and have also cleaned and re-used several pads for different projects.I don't know how much the micromesh costs but the Abralon pads are about $3.00 - 3.50 a piece. Maybe the micromesh is less expensive but sounds like it is not a bargain.The only problem with using a power sander is that the pads tend to clog up faster. However if you keep a good amount of lubrication on the piece you shouldn't have any problems.J.P.http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com
The price of the micromesh is only slightly less than the abralon. I am curious whether you tend to hold the sander pad flat so the entire surface is in contact with the work or whether you lift an edge so only one side is in contact. Also, if you lubricate with paraffin oil cut with mineral spirits as suggested before in this string, how exactly do you clean the pads when they start getting clogged? Would a toothbrush work?
Jay S.
Jay,When I rubbed out a varnished table top I used soapy water and I held the sander flat so I would not create too much pressure on the edge and risk rubbing through or making deep scratch marks that would be hard to remove.I rinsed the pads in soapy water to clean and just crinkled them up in a bucket until the pad appeared clean. Not too hard and it was easy to see a difference.When I rub out shellac I don't use a sander. I use a cork block or a rubber sanding block that I have. I believe Abralon makes a rubbing block specifically for their product. I use the parrafin/mineral spirit mix and clean the pads with soapy water and let them dry before re-using just like I mentioned above. The pads don't seem to get loaded up as fast when using oil as opposed to water.Also, the pads are quite resilient and can take a good scrubbing in order to get them clean.The thing I like about the Abralon pads is that if you have slight undulations in the surface you are polishing there is less of a chance of rubbing through a high spot when working up to a high polish.J.P.http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com
Ten days is about the bare minimum to wait before rubbing out, depending on what the finish is. For lacquer or shellac that's probably OK, but for varnish I would wait at least two weeks and a month would be better, particularly since you are going for high gloss. You can rub it out after 10 days and have it look great, but then have continued shrinkage that reveals pores or other imperfections.
My problem may be that I have not been waiting long enough after the final coat to begin rubbing out. I will wait and let you know what happens in a future post. I ordered a sample kit of the micromesh whcih has the grits up to 12,000. THis may be overkill, and perhaps up to 4000 is enough, followed by the automotive compounds. My only hesitation about the Meguires, is that when I used it before, small amounds got in crevices or recesses (eg against drawer cockbeads), and was difficult to clean out without leaving a whitish residue. I may try using transtint dye to darken these polishing compounds first, in case some is left behind.
Jay
If you are talking about the micromesh from Woodworker's Supply, I got that too. I think it is 1500 to 8000. It was awful because the MicroMesh edges are barely larger than a 5 " orbital sanding pad. What happens is they get stiff as the sander pad spins and gouge the finish on the edges what is wonderful in the middle. So it was terrible. I ended up sanding off the sanding pad of my sander to make it smaller. Then it was great untill the micro mesh started delaminating from the pads. At that point it bagan to leave large scratch marks, again. All in all, it was a disaster and required recoating ....twice. I would suggest a better method for High Gloss.
Sand completely dull flat to 1000 or 1200. I then use Abralon to 1000,2000, and then 4000. Then Menzerna polishes that are used for cars.....Intensive Polish, Final Polish II, then FMJ. This is 2 compounds and then a glaze(FMJ). I use Target Coatings, but a solvent based finish responds well to this too. You can use a more agressive compounding agent, but I prefer to sand to a higher grit and be less agressive on the compounding, which gets rid of all the sanding swirl marks.It is the polish system used on Mercedes.
Some finishes will provide a cure time on the manufacturer's spec sheet. I just sprayed some Target waterbourne lacquer, and it indicated 100 hours at 60-80 degrees for full chemical cure.
JayS
I've never tried this process on wood, but my other hobby is classic auto restoration. I use the 3-M "Hook It" System for paint finishing which sounds like what you are trying to do.
To achieve a super high gloss, reflective, show quality paint job it is absolutely necessary to have a perfectly flat surface before any finish is applied. I usually use 600 or 1000 paper with a 12" block on the primer.
After the finish is applied (Base Coat/Clear Coat, Single Stage or Laquer in my case) and has had a chance to cure I'll dry sand using 2000 then 3000 hook and loop (velcro) paper in an orbital dual action sander, (the same one I use for woodworking) they make foam pads that go between the sander and paper. Finish by power buffing at slow to mediun speed with a foam pad and 3-M "Perfect It" rubbing compound. Follow up with a good quality wax. If this dosen't work perhaps your shellac is not curing hard enough. Be sure to use fresh shellac. Build the finish thick enough to allow for the material you will be taking off.
Don't know if this helps or not, but this process should work on wood. For me....well I've learned to love oil & varnish.
Ed
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled