Does anyone know a fail proof method for removing rust on an old hand saw blade without ruining it? I’m not going to try Naval Jelly because everytime I’ve used the stuff, it stains the metal and makes it look worse than the original rust.
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Replies
MVF, the best that I have used is Evaporust(@$10 a qt. at Auto zone).
It will leave a black film that you polish out easy with very fine steel wool. I also use a green scrubbie. I just did a Disston #4 back saw 24" in an under the bed plastic sweater storage box (Wallmart/Kmart @ $7) It lets you get a half inch of juice to cover the disassembled saw plate flat in the box. You can pour off the liquid ,with out the sludge, and reuse until it gets tired. Good luck, Paddy
Thanks Paddy! I'll give it a try.
Mike
Someone makes rubber/grit "rust erasers" in various grits. I think Woodcraft sells them. I've used these on tools -- they removed the rust and polished the surface a bit. No damage.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
I'm a long-time user of EvapoRust, and I've used the rubber erasers. If you want this saw to stay as close as possible to its original appearance, use the EvapoRust. Note that it won't hurt any labels or wood any more than plain water would, but if you want to be extra cautious, you can suspend the saw down into something like a tall pipe or bucket.
If you think you might have other tools down the road that will benefit from the EvapoRust treatment, you can order it by the gallon (or 5, or 55) on-line. A quick Google will find sources, or LMK and I'll find my bookmarks.
I've read about EvapoRust on this forum before but have never given it a try. I just know Naval Jelly sucks. I'll pick some up on my way home and give it a try.
Thanks Mike
Well I ended up buying Evaporust online from their website. I couldn't find it locally at any auto supply chains like Pepboys, Autozone nor Advance Auto Parts. When I asked the clerks about it they all had looks on their faces like they never even heard of the stuff. I'll have to give it a shot when I get it.
Thanks
Hmmmm, bummer. I think AutoZone is the one they have the contract with. It'll be worth the wait. Some tips in the meantime. If there's "big rust" on it, knock it off gently with some steel wool or a scrubbie. That'll just cut down on the soaking time. When you soak, do so for several hours. Pull it out and rinse with water. If there's still rust, stick it back in and re-soak. When all the rust's gone, the aforementioned dark stuff will be there. Clean with 0000 steel wool.
Don't throw the solution away. It's good for more tools! Use it until it doesn't work. I keep my used solution in a separate can from the new stuff. I have a food-storage container that just fits a plane body (#4 for instance), and drop parts into when the need arises. For something like a plane blade, it helps to have some that hold the blade up off the bottom, keeping circulation all around. Mine has a glass furniture coaster in it.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thanks for the tips. I'll give them a try when I use the stuff.
mike
Auto Zone and O'Reilley's. Phone EvapoRust and they will direct you to a dealer in your area. Buy from someone who sells in gallons. A quart is about $9.00 pre-tax; a gallon is $20.00.GREG
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I had the same experience. AutoZOne was said to carry it, but the manager of the one I went to had never heard of it and couldn't find it in the catalogue. So, I ordered it on line from Nebraska HotRod which had a sale going. Essentially got free shipping.Great stuff. I am about to buy more.Joe
Joe, I should get mine pretty soon but I was wondering; do you dilute the stuff in water or just use it from the bottle straight?
You just use it straight from the bottle. If it starts to evaporate after a day or two, you just add tap water to top it back up. When it all turns pitch black (not just dark) and actually stops working, you can legally pour it down the drain, or do as I do and pour it in the flower beds. It is really simple stuff.
The trick is to keep the rusty part immersed. Light rust goes away quickly. Very heavy rust -- as in excavated artifacts, etc, may take two or three days, and need occasional brushing or washing off. The chemical must be in contact with the rust. so if a coating forms over the rust, things slow down. Apparently, if the bath is undisturbed, some of the spent solution may also just stay lose around the rusty part and stop action, so you should occationslly (as in every few hours), stir the bath.
This is a water-based solution, obviously, so keep your wooden handles and such clear or you will get the usual water swelling.
Okay, thanks for the help... I'll have to go to Wally-World and buy a container to put my parts in and let them soak.
For 3-dimensionally large stuff like lengths of chain, axe heads, and vices and clamps I use an old drywall mud bucket. For long saws and the like, I got two heavy vinyl drawer liners with about 3" side walls, cut one end off of each, and combined them with waterproof tape. I take the handles off the saws, and stack the blades on each other, stickering them on the bottom and between each blade with 1/4 to 1/2 inch scrap wood. I have successfully done three blades at a time this way. In all cases, I took the blades out once, rinced them under tap water, and worked them over quickly with a nylon brush to expose more rust to the solution, then put them back in. My saws have taken from about 12 hours to a day or so depending on the rust.
Saws are high carbon, so when your blade is finished, it will be covered with black carbon residue. You can use fine steel wool or 400+ grit saldpaper and a little mineral spirits and just wipe most of it away. Be watchful of the brand etching if that matters to you. I then finish mine with a bit of Renaissance wax applied with 0000 steel wool. It cleans further, stops future rust, and makes the blade slide well in the kerf.
Joe
Joe
Awesome! Thanks for the lesson... I have a gallon on order. Do you use more than a gallon at one time?
Not for saws. For bigger stuff or a lot of stuff at time, I have used up to 2 or 3 gal at to be sure everything is covered. That is the key. I have a 19th century cooking kettle that had rusted so badly that it resisted everything including rotary steel brushes. I filled it up with Evaporust, and threw some additional tools into the kettle and left it for two days, stirring occationally. Everything came out nice and rust free, including the interior of that kettle. That took about three gallons, but it was still quite usable when finished.
If you are doing saw blades and a gallon does not quite cover, just fill up some of the empty space in the contanier with bricks or something to displace the solution over to where it is needed.
Joe
More excellent advise!... I wish the stuff was available locally.. I'm sure I'll end up buying a few more gallons once I get started.
In addition to Joe's ideas [he's an advanced user, for sure! ;-) ] consider these, maybe: a length of large PVC pipe with a cap on the end, sized to fit whatever; and (can't remember who came up with this in another thread) -- you can make a plywood box of any size and line it with ordinary sheet plastic.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
That PVC p[ipe idea is a good'n I hadn't thought of. I'll use that.
Joe
I like it too forestgirl... I'll give it a shot
thanks
Forestgirl, Sorry for butting in, you mentioned earlier about haveing something at the bottom of your containerto allow for circlating,I wonder would foamrubber or sponge work.
Also could one of thoes flatpak hoover bags I'm not sure if this is the right name for them, tou know the ones you suck the air out of ?? SHRINK PACK BAGS I think thats it. Just a thought.
Regards BoysieI'm never always right but i'm always never wrong. Boysie
Boysie, I'd prefer something solid and with a relatively small edge to it. The goal is to get as much of the metal, top and bottom, exposed to the EvapoRust as possible. So, a thinnish edge under the object (a plane body, for instance) -- I happened to have a stray glass furniture caster around from my vintage-furniture-selling days, so I plopped that in, and propped the plane body, blade, whatever, up on it. But a plastic rod, old broken cup handle, anything like that would work.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
The black residue isn't carbon it is iron from the rust particles converted into a chemically different form of iron.
John W.
Interesting, John. I thought I had read that it was carbon, and it is true in my experience that the higher quality tool steels have more black residue. Whatever the case, it cleans off very easily.
WOW!!! Evaporust is some fantastic stuff! I haven't cleaned any saw blades yet but have cleaned some plane blades and a block plane...Incredibly easy to use. I put some stuff in a container and pour in Evaporust and let it sit. When I come home for work, the metal is cleaned from all the rust and all I have to do is scrub it a little with steel wool. This will definitely change the way I clean tools...
Thanks!
I just ordered five more gallons. I am now cleaning 19th century horse bits and modern fishing gear. The fact that it does not etch the surface is a big deal to me with the old stuff. I'll take those bits, wash off the grey residue, and apply some Renaissance wax to keep them from rusting again.
Joe
Edited 6/19/2007 10:36 am ET by Joe Sullivan
I'll buy five gallons the next time too but I'm may to have to find a distributor somewhere.... Ordering it direct from Evaporust it'll cost me about $26.00 in freight...
Dakotanhotrod.com runs sales on the 5-gal jugs every so often. There was a sale last week, with 5 gal totes normally sold by them at about $80.00 going for about $65.00. Freight to Dallas was $16.00 and change. In essence, you got free shipping. My 5 gal tote arrived here about 20 minutes ago.
Joe
okay thanks...i'll keep my eye out for the next sale....i don't need more right now so I can wait.
Well I certainly do enjoy this forum, there have been several discussions re: Evaporust and I finally checked out their website and found a source in Northern Ireland, I live in the republic about 150 miles south. After reading about the price in the US of $65.00 for 5 gals. and freight of $26.00 I decided to ask for a quote, the following is the respose I received:JimThanks for your e-mail.
The price for a 5 US Gallon (18.97 litres) of Evaporust including delivery would be £238.00 plus VAT. Delivery alone is £122.00 I'm afraid but this is on a pallet which I think is preferable because it is a drum of liquid. Kind regardsJerry Harwood
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Technology Packaging LimitedNow, converting to dollars give us the following: 5 gals of Evaporust = $473.17 delivered adding the VAT (value added tax) of 21% brings the total up to $572.50!I have had great success with vinegar to date and it looks like I will continue doing things this way, also I will try to keep rust out of the shop! Thought all of you would enjoy this and I can see you all gloating at the hardware store this weekend while you buy your Evaporust. Oh yeah, our gasoline is about $8.00 a gallon, so don't complain too much about $3.00! All in all though we are a happy bunch, maybe its the Guinness at $5.00 a pint!
OH, my goodness. My daughter and I hoisted pints of Guiness on Sunday. Had I known the value, we might have saved it for retirement!
Joe
Well I picked up the 5 gallon bucket of Evaporust from http://www.nebraskanhotrod.com. They still had that sale going for $65.00 so I had to take advantage of it.....Hopefully the stuff will last me awhile..
Thanks again Joe!
I spoke with an Evaporust tech rep a few weeks ago. He told me that stuff will hold 1/2 lb of rust per gallon. That's a lot of rust
Greg
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Did he say anything about having to throw it away once it turns black? Mine did and it seemed like it stopped working after that so I dumped it.
He said when it turns black, you'd think it would be expired. But keep on using it until when you pour it on your hand, you can't see skin. He said it should be opaque as it could be. Then it is exhausted.
I bought a quart and want to compare the results with electrolysis. He told me Evaporust (unlike electrolytic conversion) does not convert rust back to metal, but removes rust.
Greg
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Okay thanks Cincinnati....I owe you a Skyline three way or Gold Star whichever you prefer : )
Oh Man! I haven't had a Skyline in years. Now I will have cravings all day long. Can they flash freeze that stuff and ship it to the Gulf Coast?Greg••••••• Exo 35:30-35
Edited 6/22/2007 10:17 am by Cincinnati
Just buy the cans of their chili from their website and grab some spaghetti and shredded cheese and walk down memory lane.... good stuff
RustFree is another product that may work well for you. It's usually sold with Boeshield T-9, the BEST rust preventative on the market, hands down. Whatever you use, when you get it fixed, treat it with Boeshield T-9 regularly and you'll never have trouble with rust again. One treatment of my machine tables usually last's about 9 months.
http://www.boeshield.com/index.htm
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
I have the T-9 stuff but everytime I spray it on my tablesaw or planer bed and wipe it off, it tends to grab my cloth when it dries. What am I doing wrong? Am i wiping it off too soon or too late? One time I sprayed it on and didn't wipe it off at all and it made it worse. Not sure what I'm doing wrong.
mike
I apply the Boeshield, ensuring I've got complete coverage. I let it set for 24 hours, after which it has the appearance of a waxy coating. I then buff it off, turning the cloth frequently. This takes a fair amount of enthusiasm and muscle as you note, the coating will grab at the cloth and is tenacious and stubborn to buff off. But with the proper amount of work, it will buff off, leaving a well protected surface. I follow with a coat or two of a good quality furniture paste wax to slick it up. If you do this, you'll be good to go. Yes, it does take a fair amount of effort, but it's worth it for the protection you'll get from it and as I explained before, the protection is long lasting. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. When done, water will bead up on the steel without affecting it yet no harm will come to any wood processed on the tool. Let me know how it turns out for you...Jeff
Ah now I understand. It's sort of like a car wax were I have to let it set up then buff off. I'll try it tonight and see how it goes tomorrow.
Thanks for the help!
I have just finished 6 saws with Evaporust. Greatr stuff, no side effects, can be legally dumped down the dain when it is used up and it takes a lot of metal to use it up.
The only caution is thatit is water based, and will behave as water on youtr wooden handles. I just remove the blade, and then reasemble after it is ready to go.
Joe
I use a variable speed grinder with a 7" polishing pad, still have to do some hand work but it works well on the big expanses.------------------------------------
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore
Jeff, thanks for the lesson on Boeshield T-9! I sprayed it on all my machine surfaces, let it set for the night and wiped it off the next day. Turned out really well.
Thanks again, mike
Great. Glad you got it working for you. Not only does it work very well, I think you'll be amazed at how long it lasts. As I said, I get about 8 months between treatments.
What sold me on it is, I perspire a lot and easily so I was getting little brown (rust) dots on my machine tables when I first started out. Being a former machinist, I could NOT tolerate the abuse of my machine tables. Since using Boeshield, I've never had my sweat (saltwater) cause any more trouble on my steel tables.
Also, some time back, Taunton FWW did a torture test using all the treatments they could find to buy on sample steel plates in a extremely high humidity environment, and nothing came remotely close to challanging Boeshield as a better product or even an equally effective product for protecting steel from moisture. It's amazing stuff....
Jeff
I can definitely tell a difference between my current apllications and my previous trys. Feels like a slick film over the table surfaces now. When I bought the stuff a couple of years ago at the Columbus Woodworking Show, the sales rep told me just to spray it on and wipe it off without going into much detail. I guess either he really didn't know how to use it himself or I misunderstood what he said.
Thanks for your help!
Not to steel the thread, but off on a tangent:
A biologist at work set three dead lead acid batteries on the wing of a PM-66 at work, and left them there overnight. This caused some serious oxidation in a few spots.
Any ideas on how to minimize / repair the damage?
What's a PM-66 and what's it made out of?..... I have some stains on the outfeed tables of my drum sander I could never get rid of... I doubt sanding them away would do anything other than scratch the surface of the table. Hopefully somone has an answer for you....maybe it'll help me too.
A PM-66 is a Power Matic 66 tablesaw. We have one at work that they use to cut UHMW Poly on for some of the parts we use.
oh... you said biologist so I thought it was some sort of high tech scientific instrument table...hahaha
Apply a wet mixture of bicarbonate of soda and water on the spots and let it sit for an hour to neutralize any acid. After that, clean up any rough corroded areas, if there are any, with a very fine abrasive of some sort, and then apply a wax or oil to the whole top.
Cast iron is porous, so any dark stains are deep into the metal and permanent, an abrasive won't remove them. The abrasive cleaning will also create an area that is visually different and there is nothing you can do to correct that except to scrub the whole top with the same abrasive. I wouldn't use the abrasive unless the corrosion has created raised areas that would make it difficult to slide stock over the table.
John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine
A little mineral spirits and steel wool works well and generally doesn't harm the etching (unless you get real "enthusiastic" with the rubbing....).
.
Tschüß!
James
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that...."
-- A.C. Clarke
I think it depends on the rust. If its dark pits, I don't think anything will fix that short of mechanical means. For light fluffy surface rust, Wipe on kerosene let it soak, wipe on more, let it soak then scrape the rust off with a razor blade. I think this is the most fool proof method.
Adam
If the etching is still worth saving, be aware that any of the acid rust removers (Naval Jelly, Muriatic, etc.) will remove the etching. I don't know if electrolysis is safe for etching but it works great on rusty tools. Google up "electrolysis rust removal".
Pete
Edited 6/7/2007 9:37 pm ET by PeteBradley
Has anyone tried electrolytic Rust Reversal? I am in the middle of a two tests and the results seem promising. The first test is with a plane body that unknowingly got wet two years ago during a hurricane. When I found it, the sole and one side was deeply pitted. I asked two machinists about resurfacing it. One said not worth it, the other suggested filling it with Bondo and treating it like a corroded car body.
Here is the results of converting rust back to metal.
(IF YOU JUST WANT THE BEFORE AND AFTER, Look at 01, 09 & 10.)
01 & 02 are the Before photos of the rusted, pitted plane.
03 is a copper wire establishing an electrical connection with the plane body.
04 shows the first anode I used. It rapidly rusted; the process appeared to slow. So I switched midstream to a stainless bolt.
05 shows the gases that rapidly formed when the battery charger was plugged in.
06 shows the electrolyte surface after about 12 hours, and 08 shows the second anode.
09 shows the condition of the plane upon removal from the solution after the process was complete.
The final results: 10, 11, & 12 show after the plane was cleaned up and waxed.
Greg
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Exo 35:30-35
Edited 6/21/2007 4:05 pm by Cincinnati
I've tried it in the past with good results... I like the pics. Do you add baking soda to the container of water and let the parts sit? I've done that in the past... seems to work well.
Washing Soda - (for Laundry). I don't let the parts "soak". I immediately plug in the battery charger and run current from the rusted part to the electrode. Length of time is dependent upon the amount of rust.Greg
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Exo 35:30-35
Edited 6/21/2007 4:07 pm by Cincinnati
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