Winter is quickly approaching and i’m needing something to heat the shop.
I’m a minnesota boy living in nebraska and i honestly do not need it to be 85 degrees, i only need something to make a warm area to warm up occasionally.
What’s the best way to go? are space heaters too dangerous? i’ll be doing finising in a different building, so the sawdust is my main concern.
Replies
Space heaters powered by combustion emit carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide and other nasty stuff, and shouldn't be used in a closed space. On top of that, they emit water vapor. Put warm moist air in the shop and then let the place cool down, and you have condensation and rust on the machines.
Cheapest depend on what fuel costs in your area. If you're rural, wood may be your least expensive fuel. In other areas, natural gas is cheapest.
If natural gas or propane is your least expensive fuel, you consider a through-the-wall gas furnace instead of a space heater. It has a heat exchanger, so that heat stays inside the building, and combustion byproducts like carbon dioxide and water go outside. Installation is pretty simple: one hole through the wall for air intake and chimney, and piping for the gas.
Edited 11/11/2006 11:40 am ET by Jamie_Buxton
is it safe to have a wood fire in a shop with sawdust in the air?
Absolutely!
My uncle Wes had a sawmill, molding mill, and furniture shop and all three were heated with wood stoves.
The danger from your heater, now mater what it's source is from carbon monoxide if not properly sealed and vented, and from fire from not isolating the heater and it's exhaust from the combustibles in the shop. For example, it's tempting to put something behind the heater in warm weather "to get it out of the way" and then forget it when the cold weather comes along.
Another danger from a flame-type heater is the solvents in finishes. Do ventilate well when you are using them! And keep the solvents in a sealed, fume-proof cabinet when you aren't using them.
There! I've old-man'ed you!
Mike D :)
Dear M,
I have heated my 28 x 36 x 9 shop with a wood stove for years with good results. It gives me a way to get rid of cut offs and mistakes :-(, plus it is quiet, requires no electricity and has a pleasing oder as well. For glue ups, I typically have to load the stove three times in 24 hrs, but I can maintain 70 degrees with an outside temp of 10 degrees. My stove is a bit undersized, so the p next step up would give me better performance, but I use what I have.Best,John
Depending on your ceiling height, a radiant heater is an excellent way to go.
I purchased a unit from W.W. Grainger along with a thermostat and a small, very small, exhaust fan. When the thermostat calls for heat, the heater ignites and the fan, mounted high at the other end of the shop kicks on. No burner products or moisture.
At first I used Propane, then switched to natural gas when it became available.
The advanatge of "radiant" is that it heats "things" (tools, people, etc), not the air. The "things" then radiat heat back into the room.
Frosty
Can you give me more info on the heater? Grainger part number and size of shop.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
My shop is in a converted, single car garage bay - approx. 12' x 24'. Walled off, insulated with double doors (with windows) and a window in one end. Ceiling slants up from 9' to about 12' - sideways.My system has been in place about 10 years (with no problems) so my Grainger catalog is much out of date.My unit is a: Dayton 3E460A, 30,000 BTU output (stamp on the unit; the lowest output of three models)
but It looks like the Perfection-Schwank 4E207 in the catalog.The minimum clearance required UNDER the unit is 72". They mount, hang, at about a 30 degree angle. I fastened a piece of cement board (Duroc) on the ceiling above the unit to be safe, even though they call for a minimum of 28" "above" clearance.Holler if you need more info or want pictures.Frosty
It isn't Minnesota or Nebraska, but it can get a little chilly here in San Jose, CA. Just yesterday, there was some frost on my windshield and a couple of times a year there's even frost on the grass. During the "blizzard" of '76, we actually had snow on the ground and traffic was messed up almost all morning until it melted. (One moron actually wrote an indignant letter to the paper asking why the city didn't have any snow removal equipment - lol)
Joking aside, it's pretty common to have overnight and morning temps in the high 30's which can have an impact on finishing work. I use a halogen work light and/or a kerosene space heater to keep the shop a little warmer. It's low tech and probably too expensive, but it definitely takes the chill off.
A permanent source of heat would be ideal.
But a space heater -- either propane or kerosene -- will take the edge off the cold, and is probably the least expensive alternative for occasional use.
You said you will not be using the area for any finishing work, but I would still make sure the space is not too tightly enclosed so there is adequate ventilation.
I prefer propane heaters, since I don't like the smell of kerosene.
********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
One comment I would like to make about propane heaters is that they generate a lot of moisture,(the exhausts is co2 and water), so you want to watch your change in humidity in your shop. I use wood heat, and have the opposite problem. Wood heat is very dry. Wood heat also allows you to keep your shop cleaner, because you have some place to chuck your scaps.
Thanks, but I am not using it in my shop. I have a big old (and drafty) garage, and use it there occasionally to take the edge off the cold.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
We live in Michigan and have a 45,000 BTU direct vent gas furnace in our 18 x 30 shop (insulated walls and ceiling, slab concrete floor). It easily keeps the temperature at 50 through the coldest days, will quickly heat the shop to 70 or higher if needed. However, I usually find 50 to 60 is a quite comfortable temperature for working. I usually start out wearing a thin vest and watch cap, but depending on how active I am I'm likely to take one or both off after 15 minutes or so.The direct vent heaters are available for both natural gas and propane, and are simple to install. There's a eight inch or so hole through the wall for the inlet/exhaust pipe, a gas hookup, and 115 volt electric plug is also needed. Temperature is controlled by a wall thermostat.
What is the brand of that 4800 watt electric heater?
Frank
The electric heater is a DIMPLEX Model DCH-4831. I know that in Canada, Dimplex also manufactures the 240V baseboard heaters sold at the Home Depot.
The temperature outside tonight is -27 Celcius and the garage is comfortable, so I have no comlaints about the unit. This is my 3rd season with the heater and so far so good!
Bob
Another byproduct of burned propane (especially in tight places) is CO - Commonly called carbon monoxide. In sufficient concentrations, it is deadly. Venting the exhaust outside, though costly, is the answer to the many problems.
You are correct, but that should only happen in a poorly adjused burner. Propane is used in many places because properly set up, it is a safe buning fuel, with only CO2 and water being the byproducts
But notice I said in a closed area (at least I think I said that). In a closed area, the oxygen can become depleted and it doesn't matter how well the burner is adjusted, it will leave off the extra oxygen molecule and put out carbon monoxide instead of the dioxide. Consider a well tuned automobile in a closed garage.
The Monitor is vented out side, and a well adjusted propane fire generates CO2 and water, weather it is inside or out. It's why you can use a propane range in your kitchen or a propane space heater. A well tuned car generated CO1, not CO2, so it is always bad, in or out of a garage. If you have no ventilation in a room, and any fire, it will use the oxygen until you suffer from oxygen starvation. The danger is not always just carbon monoxide poisoning.
The exhaust of any running car contains far more CO2 than CO. The exhaust of a pre-emission controls car which is well tuned contains a very small percentage of CO. The exhaust of modern cars with functioning emission systems contains an extremely small percent of CO. But even a small amount of CO can be very dangerous.
If propane is burned without enough oxygen in the mixture going to the burner then CO in appreciable amounts will be produced. This can happen for a variety of reasons including an obstruction in the air inlet to the burner or depletion of the oxygen in the air.
CO poisoning is not casual, and happens with a relatively low concentration of CO. Anyone using an unvented space heater fueled by any hydrocarbon including propane, natural gas, fuel oil, etc should have a CO monitor near the heater.
I'm not acquainted with the Monitor. Outside air supply is good for any stove. As far as any carbon bond fuel supply, it doesn't matter if it is from wood, coal, methane ethane, propane, butane and on up ..., if you limit the oxygen supply, the end product will be more CO and less CO2. The CO when released to the atmosphere will quickly become CO2. The propane stove in your kitchen probably has a vast volume of O rich atmosphere so is not usually a problem. Note however: A very small and tight kitchen with a propane or NG stove can result in CO poisoning. The solution is proper ventilation. I don't say this to be argumentive but to avoid a possible problem. Carbon monoxide poisoning is dangerous. Some time ago an MD was having a problem with his CO detector going off annoyingly. His response was to disable it. Upon returning from work he found his entire family dead from CO poisoning. Don't let it happen to you. Get a CO detector. I lacked one course from having a minor in chemistry so before you dismiss this advice, please seek out someone who knows more than either of us.
Edited 1/3/2007 10:11 pm ET by tinkerer2
A Monitor heater is a sealed-combustion system that uses outside air for combustion and vents combustion products to the outside. No CO, CO2 or water vapor produced by combustion enters the conditioned space.--
Todd
"Monitor heater" That is about what I had expected. A good way to go for any combustion apparatus if possible.
The heater in our shop is "Cozy" brand. It's the smallest direct vent, counterflow model they have and still somewhat overkill our two car garage size shop.
My shop is 26'x16' and was used as a commercial shop by the previous owner until he outgrew it. I've had it for a year and had not fired up the wall furnace until this weekend. It is an "Empire" wall furnace, hooked up to an outdoor propane tank. As far as I can tell, the combustion appears to occur with outside air, ventilating to the outside as well, perhaps similar to the "Monitor" heaters that have been described here. I went to the "Empire" website but it is an older model not described in their current line of products, so I know very little about it. I'd be interested whether it can also run on natural gas, as I've now got a natural gas connection running out to the shop. I intend to monitor the humidity and will also install a CO detector in the shop. Does anyone here have an Empire furnace like this -- about 7 feet high, brown and tan?Anyhow, I realize that a very cheap heating option was my previous approach: whatever I intend to do out in the shop during cold weather, I always start with some hand sawing! After that, I don't mind the cold. Well, now if I don't want to saw there is always the wall furnace, and I'm sure I'll be grateful for it come January...
-Andy
Edit: I did finally find a website with what appear to be comparable heaters. Wow, it turns out that I hit the jackpot and didn't even know it.
Edited 11/26/2006 8:54 pm ET by VTAndy
The usual means of changing from propane to NG is to change the jets - very simple to do and very cheap. You must live South of the Mason Dixon. Kinda hard warming onesself sawing a board at O° F without wearing heavy clothes.
Hi Tinkerer,
I finally found the website about the heater and see what it takes to convert. I'll probably wait until I use up the propane before converting to natural gas. (which I use in my house)Cold is all relative -- in fact I live in Northern VT, so what I consider warming myself up when it's O degrees is probably not what other might consider warm. Heavy clothing also isn't necessary for warmth when moving a lot but the right clothing is -- ask anyone here who goes cross-country skiing when it's below zero...
-Andy
Burrrrrrrrrr!
ha ha -- it's actually feeling too warm now to be the week after thanksgiving...
Thanks for the info. My house and shop are well ventilated, one by design, and one because it is so old and has been moved twice that it's pretty lose. I have heated with a wood stove for 40 years, and still heat our home and shop with wood. Both buildings have external outside air inlets, so the stoves do not draw combustion air from inside. I also have a co monitor for the house, as our hot waterheater is propane, and our cookstove.(So far, it has never gone off) Our old house was lighted by propane as well. We never suffered from this, because of good ventilation. But I would never have attempted to light, or cook with any other fuel, such as oil because the normal combustion products are poisons. If an appliance is vented externally, it isn't as dangerous, but in a too tight house, you will suffer from oxygen depletion. My original point was, propane exhaust is co2 and water, and if set up correctly, is safe inside. I don't propose to know all about this subject, and have learned from this discussion, and I hope this has helped others as well. With today tootight construction methods, any inside flame can be a problem, if the power goes out, what are all the candles burning? I hope I don't come across as too argumentative.
Mikkimel,
Back in the 70's we experimented with various designs....with an emphasis on cheapest. For a sustained heat the best was to leverage coal and its relationdhip to water along with a cheap distribution system. We took a small (12x12x20) coal burning stove and put a 40-50 gal. tank on top filled with water. Out of the tank came two pipes (one near top, one near bottom) which connected to some old radiatiors (cast iron) that ran around the perimentor of the room. At the end of the loop was a circulator which pulled the water from the tank, through the radiators and back to the tank. A small fire fueled about twice a day with a shovel full of coal was all that was required. The coal burning stove was completely outside in the cold...
That's my version of safest, cheapest.
mikkimel
If you want cheap original purchase price you cannot beat electric space heaters. They are affordable and simple to install. just don't let sawdust pile up against them and they are fiine.. some of the oil cheaters (that is electric heaters that use oil as a medium) are particularly safe.
Operating costs might be an issue though depending on a whole bunch of factors.. Because Minnesota is the 2nd. windiest state in the nation we have a lot of large windpowered generators. many are built but not on line! We have two really well run nuclear power plants and several large coal plants (we're real close to western coal mines)
Our electrical energy costs are low and should remain low for the foreseeable future..
Natural gas is going up comparatively. You should already know what heating oil costs are, if not go to a gas station and check the price of diesel fuel, then subtract the taxes.. Now you have home heating oil costs..
Be very careful about buying a low energy cost approach to things.. It's nice and we need people to take that approach however with a new business start up costs quickly eat capitol.
If your goal is to make stuff you need money to buy wood and supplies etc.. spend you funds carefully.
I have a small 12 x 20 shop and have elec. baseboard heaters and leave them on at about 60 degrees. I have a lot of ceiling lights that after 30 minutes the temp. goes up to 65 plus. I know most of you have much larger shops, but for me the elec. is great and the cost is minimal. I have 14 plus inches of insulation and good tight doors. A lot depends on your intentions, business, hobby, and pleasure. In January it is hard to get started in a cold shop.
I use a Rennai propane heater in Maine. My shop is about the size of a two car garage. I only work in it on weekends, so it is unheated most of the time. The propane heater vents through the wall and warms the space up reasonably well and fairly quickly.
Regarding the Rennai propane heater in Maine, do you get condensation when the shop cools down after your weekend of working in it? I'm in VT and am weighing the decision between a woodstove and Rennai.
Thanks,
Andy
do you get condensation when the shop cools down after your weekend of working in it?
Not so I have noticed. The heater is vented, of course, so I don't think it adds any water.
Here is a recent article that may help:
http://www.rd.com/familyhandyman/content/19703?trkid=tfhplus_nov_06
I don't know how large your shop is ... but in mine (25x21) I installed a window mounted heat pump. $365 and it does a great job!! Heat in the winter, AC in the summer.
Barry
Anderson -
Care to share the product info? That sounds what I am looking for. Thanks
The unit is by Freidrick. It is a simple window mount unit and runs off of 220. I've the biggest model (can't remember ... I'll have to look). This particuar model is a small heat pump. When it gets too cold and the pump can't handle it, it has heating strips inside, just like the home units. The only problem I've had is that I must clean the filters regular. It is a pretty good dust collector.
Barry from WV
I have found that the electric ceiling mounted heater with a built in fan and thermostat works well for me.
I have a 28x40 shop and live in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan where the winters are long and cold. When doing something like caving at the bench which does not cause much movement I use a radiant heat lamp that is mounted to the ceiling and swivels to keep the immediate area very warm.
http://www.superwoodworks.com/Projects/ShopShots.htm
Both the heaters can be found at Northern Hydrulics and the radiant heat lamp is on sale this month.
Garry
View Image
Shows the radiant heat lamp above
View Image
http://www.superwoodworks.com
Garry, I loved viewing your organized shop, and all your projects. I know your customers get the same treatment. I use to Deer hunt in and around Brethren. Wish you will.
Garry, you have a very nice shop! The room that you have to have duplicate machines is a great plus, and the envy of us all. Wow it must be nice!
Thanks, I do enjoy my shop but believe me at times it is plenty crowed.It took me a long time before I could build a shop like this.
Garryhttp://www.superwoodworks.com
Yes, It can get crowded quick! Nearly finished jobs take alot of my free floor space. I usually can't wait to get them delivered and installed just to reclaim the floor space. It was a few years before my shop was built. Wish I could've done it sooner.
Before investing in any type of heater check with your Insurance Company first. Some have restrictions on what type of heater they allow to keep your policy in force.
Greg
I use the same electric heater in your lower photo in my 20x24 shop. It's the only heat source and works fine. I keep it on the lowest setting (about 50 deg.) when not in use. When I go out to work, I crank it up and it heats the entire shop to 65-68 deg. in jus a few minutes. Only maintenance is to blow it out with compressed air every month or so.
I leave mine on #2 and never touch it. It stays between 62 & 65 unles we get temps below zero, then I need to turn it up some when I am working in there.
It is pretty cheap and reliable heat.http://www.superwoodworks.com
Radiant heat run by natural gas
I'm with you. That's the way to go.Frosty
This will be my first year with heat. I sealed and insulated the shop first and its paying off. The new propane radiant heater I installed starts up once every 4-5 hours for approx 10-15mins and that keeps he shop warmed to an average temp of 16.5 deg C while outside temp is anywhere from 0 - 10 Deg C.
When I walk into the shop you can feel the heat coming from the concrete floor and all the tools are nice and warm, could not be happier with the purchase. Just check your ceiling height, there are minimum requirements and they are different in the US from Canada, but mine ceilings are 9.5' with a 7' clearence required and there is plenty of room.
I'm from Canada and purchased it from Easy Radiant Works at one of the woodworking shows for approx $CAD750, did my own installation and hired a licenced gas fitter to complete the propane connection.
http://www.easyradiantworks.com/heatwave.htm
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l227/woodworkingpics/installcomplete.jpg
Edited 11/16/2006 8:48 am ET by waynew
Edited 11/16/2006 11:33 am ET by waynew
One idea I've had success with is effectively reducing the size of my shop in the winter months in order to make it easier to heat. I have affixed 2x2 strapping to my ceiling in various places and during the late fall I staple lightweight clear plastic sheeting to that. This stuff is sold as painter's "tarping," and is cheap. A plus is that the clear sheeting allows light to shine through it to illuminate the blocked-off areas. I originally used to hang opaque tarps for this purpose, but I blocked off all the light...
The sheeting walls off portions of my shop that I'm only in occasionally; for instance the lumber storage area. The working areas are left open, and those are what I'm primarily interested in heating. I cut slits in the sheeting to walk through, and hang another sheet over the slit in order to close up the opening and block out more of the heat.
I recently doubled the size of my shop, and my 15,000 BTU direct vent natural gas heater (made by Empire) - which was inadequate for the size of the old shop - is doubly inadequate now that I've got twice as much room. So draping off about a third of the shop helps with that. I've also begun to deploy small electric heaters to take off the rest of the chill. One thing I like about this is that I can plunk them right on the bench next to what I'm doing, and that helps warm my hands. Between the two sources of heat it's bearable. Long underwear helps, as do insulated boots.
I looked into installing a wood stove earlier this year. But between the cost of the stove, stovepipe, non-flammable backing and flooring; the space it would take up; and the fact that my insurance company was vacillating on whether they would insure the place or not, I decided not to go that route. Unfortunately, I had also been saving up a lot of scrap that I intended to burn up, and now I have to get rid of that. I use my lawn chipper to make mulch out of the long rippings up to 2 inches in diameter.
Zolton
My shop is in the basement of my home (lower peninsual of Michigan) so the temperature doesn't drop too much, but this year I did install an electric overhead quartz radiant heater purchased from Lee Valley.
I've been leery of electric power to produce heat because of operating cost, but this unit operates on a maximum of 1.5 kWh. Since I am hobbiest and not in the shop 10 hours a day, 6 days a week, like some of you folks, I have found it a good way to take the chill off while I am working at the bench.
I am surprised, however, that no one has mentioned a pellet stove as a safe method of heating a large area.
Monte
I live in Chicago, so I know about cold winters. We just recently moved to a new home with a 2 story detached garage. I have a workshop on the 2nd floor, Approx dimensions 24x24. I insulated the whole garage, but will just heat the 2nd floor.
I just purchased a Dayton electric heater model L4000. It is 240 volt and rated for 13500 BTU's. I just received it Tues and mounted it from the wall approb 7 ft off the ground. We have not had any really cold days yet, but yesterday with the temps in the 40's the garage was approx 55 degrees. I turned on the heater and the space warmed to 65 degrees after about 30 minutes.
I also looked into a Monitor kerosene heater that is a direct vent. The smaller unit M2200 is $1200, so I thought I would try the electric heater first.
Hope this helps, Steve
I live in a small city just outside of Edmonton, Alberta. I have a 26 X 16 ft X 10ft H shop attached to my garage. 6" R20 walls and R40 in the atic.
I have natural gas piped to the building and was going to install a
radiant heater.
Interim heat comes from a 4800 watt electric construction heater. It is more than adequate. My attached garage is the same construction and there is seldom ice on the floor. The insulation retains the heat from the vehicles.
I am finding the concrete to be the coldest and hardest on the feet. I am going to spend the gas heater money on an insulated wooden floor. Once done, I do not think the heater will be coming on that often.
Regardless of your heat source, put lots into good insulation and draft sealing.
I live in Calgary, Alberta Canada and yes we do get winter up here! My small double attached garage (18X22) is my shop. Here is my heating solution, which has served me well for 3 years:
Good luck in your quest for the best heating system for your situation.
Bob
I have used a scratch and dent mobile home heater with great success. It has an enclosed flame, heats a confined area very quickly and never gave me a lick of trouble. call around, check the classifieds - whatever. get it if you can.
joe clark
I use a corn stove in my house and have a propane heater in my shop. I wish I had corn in both. I buy in by the ton and it is wonderful
I would think that a corn stove would work great as well, with all the farming you have in your area you should be able to get fuel at a decent rate. Maybe i have the wrong crop. Of course this is also supposing you live in a more rural area or have the space to implement this idea. If you live in a more modern neighboorhood it may not be possible.
All I can say is:
HEAT CONTROLER,INC>
1900 wellworth ave. Jackson, Mich. 49203
Mine is a ten sear unit Hvac, Love it. set and for get it.!
Try a ductless mini-split heat pump w/AC. Go to ebay and do a search. There is an ebay store located in Florida that I bought from last April. I have 600 sg. ft. w/ 10 ft. ceilings in my shop. I bought a one and one-half ton 18 BTU system delivered for $830. I live in GA. Great AC all summer (very efficient) and the heater takes the chill off very quickly in the AM. To install you need to drill one (3") hole and mount the blower unit on the wall (like a motel unit). Mine is up about 6 1/2 ft. high. All the power and lines go through this hole out to a slim compressor sitting nearby. You will need a 220 and an outside fusebox (cutoff).
The Woodchuck
Edited 11/19/2006 5:14 pm ET by woodchuck49
I think that you are on the right track with space heaters. I believe that your requirement of occassional heat makes electric space heaters the ideal choice for you. They are inexpensive and you can move them around where you need them. I wouldn't leave them unattended while running. I'd clean the areas where they were to be used and make sure they were cool before leaving the shop.
I am also a Minnesota boy who still resides in the state. I started out in a shop with no heat. I used a propane burner the first year. This did'nt provide a very nice working environment and wasn't safe. Open flames and fumes were issues.
I then rented a shop with baseboard heat. This was OK, but there were two problems: long recovery times and I needed to blow the dust of the baseboard units every day.
I am currently building a new shop and have purchased a corn burner to heat it. Corn runs about 1/4 the cost of natural gas per BTU. The corn is in a closed hopper so there is no open flame to the shop. I chose this type of heat over an inside wood stove for insurance reasons. We've used corn to heat our home for the last 2 years and love it. In my opionion, the only thing that beats corn is (if you had a supply of free wood) an outside wood fired boiler.
Its interesting reading all the suggestions and solutions people have. It just goes to show that everything is relative. I live in the Yukon (it is presently -35c) and heat with wood. I live off the grid(40miles) and power my place with solar/wind/generator, so electric heat is only a wonder, Propane is 100$ a hundred pounds, so wood is pretty well my only option.If I did use any thing else, I would use a Monitor kerosene/diesel heater. Many people heat their homes up here with them, and everyone I talk to says they are far superior in economy and comfort than other types. Way cheaper than other oil furnaces to run. The highest BTU per gallon.
I live outside of Edmonton, Alberta. I had planned on intalling a radiant gas tube overhead - 10 ft ceiling.
My shop has 2X6 insulated walls and ceiling. I put in a 4500 watt electric costruction heater for temporary use.
My floor is bare concrete, and after 3 winters with the electric heat, I am gong to scrap the radiant idea and put the money into upgrading the floor. Plywood on top of 1 1/2" faom insulation is considerably cheaper than instaling the gas heater and way nicer to work on.
As it is, the electric unit does a great job. Once I get moving around it doesn't take long before I am turning the heater off.
Insulate first, then determine the heater needed.
Don
I live in Wisconin and use electric radiant ceiling panels. They're thin 2-foot by 4-foot panels, no fire danger, no exhaust. I keep the thermostat dialed down to 50 F and it's comfortable.
snowdog, Do you have a brand and source for the panels? Rich
Sorry for the delay in getting back. Here's the Website:
http://www.sshcinc.com/BarNone2.htm.they have different size panels, and they sometimes sell cosmetic seconds for around 25% less. I think I paid roughly $100 for a single 2x4 foot panel. I have six panels, so it's not cheap upfront, but the safety and energy savings makes me not regret it at all. Cheers.
I can also vouch for the electric radiant panels from SCHC. I installed 2 x 6 foot panels in my basement living area. With the thermostats set at about 60 we are comfortable sitting down there watching TV. If you were moving around in a workshop I can see setting the thermostat at 50.
The company was great to work with and helped me orient the panels so I covered the most space with the least number of panels.
I think I spent about $1000 for 6 panels, three thermostats and shipping. And into my second winter using them I'd say it was well worth the price
Hello To All,
I come to this forum tonight rather angry. Here's why.
My shop is a 36 ft x 55 ft detached one story frame building. I built it new in 2003. It is my dream shop and, like many of you, I would rather spend time in the shop than anywhere else. Anyway, I was hoping to find a solution to my problem among other "shop guys". I would welcome any thoughts you all may have.
My shop is heated by a woodstove. I like the wood heat. I even have rocking chairs next to it for when other like minded shop guys stop by. The stove sits on a raised hearth with ceramic tile under it. Behind the stove is a brick backwall that is spaced 4 inches away from the wood framing. Insulated stainless steel pipe delivers the smoke from the stove into a masonry chimney with a clay liner on the outside of the building.
During this past November I recieved a call from my homeowners insurance company stating that they wanted to come by and do a visual survey of my property (house, shop and land). They indicated that with the rising value of homes that they needed to do this to be sure that I had appropriate insurance coverage for the replacement value of the home and shop. That all seemed reasonable to me.
This very afternoon I received a call from the same insurance company telling me in no uncertain terms that unless I remove my woodstove from the shop that they will not insure my property. I am perplexed. Here in SE Pennsylvania I would guess that somewhere around 60% of homes use either wood or anthracite coal as a supplemental heat source. Nearly all of the Amish, of which many are my neighbors, heat and cook with wood and coal. As a firefighter with 28 years of experience I was careful to install the stove to meet or exceed the NFPA standards for solid fuel installations.
Have any of you been challenged by your insurance company over your choice of shop heat? What did you do about it?
Bill, these guys are culling the accounts to either cut coverage in your area or jack you up in price if you complain. Insurance companies sell off one product " FEAR" as it creats bigger policies and revenue. Now we all need to know the name of the insurance company and the local agency (who might be the only preperatrator in this case.) Pat
As an after thought , do you deal with a local independant agent or an agent of a major ins co. directly, it makes a difference. Is it a regular ins co, or a mutual co. also a difference, usually a lower rate. Who do your neighbors use and have they had the same problem. Attact don't settle it's your money check out your options. pfh
Edited 1/26/2007 12:15 am ET by PADDYDAHAT
BILLB
That's what insurance companies do lately, come out and inspect!
It's their new sales technique. Here's your defence..
Call lots of insurance companies and get their quotes.. Find one you think you'll like (not always the cheapest and make sure they know everything, your hobby the wood stove etc.. .. get it in writting.. )
Buy their policy..
Now if you really like your old agent/ company they will come back with a counter offer quickly. If they get you back inside of 60 days you are still considered to have continous coverage. The agennt still gets his old bonuses and you can maintain that relationship (if you want to after what they did to you)
Insurance companies got tricks? you got tricks! Sad that it has to come to this isn't it?
Hi Bill ,
First off are you in business or personal hobby shop ?
When we bought our current home and property it had an existing shop building 28'X45' with a going cabinet shop with employees and all . I wanted to see if I could get a commercial policy for the shop in addition to the home owners policy . Our agent came out and took a look and was quite pleased with the dry walled shop and saw the existing wood stove in a corner . He said lose the wood stove and there would be no problem .
Having an open flame ( fire ) in a wood shop can be an explosive environment , I purchased an electric furnace , the same unit that goes inside a building and gets used with a heat pump . I opted not to get the heat pump part only the air handler . I used to use kerosene space heaters , it heated the shop but was smelly and noisy and with the price of Kerosene not that cheap to run .
I spend $3 - $4 dollars a day to heat the shop in the coldest months Dec, Jan, Feb . Its quiet clean safe and most of all warm .
Underwriters are afraid of their own shadows . Several years ago at renewal time the ins co sent me a questionnaire about the shop . They would not insure the shop unless it had a DC that emptied to an outside location . I no longer have ins on my shop .There would go my heat .
dusty
You keep the thermostat at 50 and are comfy? Your one cool dude!
(sorry could not resist).
i have a similar 4500 watt electric heater in my shop(a 2 car garage)
the heater cost me 69 bucks canadian plus a breaker and some wire and a receptacle, so maybe a hundred bucks
a thousand for a gas heater? no way, a new lathe, bigger jointer etc etc yes!!
i can buy a lot of kilowatts for a thousand bucks
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