To Fellow Knotheads,
Is it ok to use this term? Seems appropiate rather than saying to all and it is meant to compliment the forum name.
My sincere thanks to all of you who replied to my question about strip ripping. As a new member of this forum, I am impressed with how much knowledge is out there.
SAFETY- Another topic please— I am a retired orthopedic surgeon and have also been a long term woodworker. Over the years, I have treated many home workshop and commercial shop injuries. I always made a point of determining exactly how the injury occured so that, hopefully, I could avoid the same fate. I also passed each incident on to our wood working club so that they too could learn from mistakes and tool malfunctions, etc. How about extending that approach to this group. Specifically, report an injury, how it happened and how it could have been avoided.
Any takers? Thanks again to a great group for your input. Bob Waddell
Replies
I had tried to start a safety thread last week but it died quickly. Happy to try again.
Lesson:
Us a push stick when resawing small boards on a bandsaw, not your thumb <g>. I put a one inch gash in center of my right thumbprint because I didn't want to pause to get the push stick from another table in the shop. It was gluable (no stitches) but it required a visit to the ER.
Solution: Put a magnetic hook on my bandsaw and hang the push stick from it. It's in my face now every time I use the saw.
Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
Thanks Mark always helps to be reminded of good technique. Perhaps the safety issue can continue. I always learn from my mistakes as well as others. Bob
"... I put a one inch gash in center of my right thumbprint because I didn't want to pause to get the push stick from another table in the shop. ..."
But, look at the good side -- the thumbprint change probably means they can't make a positive ID for the bank robbery last week... :')
Seriously, I've come very close to doing the same thing. I keep some type of stick handy near the bandsaw now. It's easy to get complacent about a bandsaw because it appears to be inherently safer than many other tools. Them's the kind that reach out and get ya!
Regards,
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting Click Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
They won't get a positive match on the thumb print, but they'll get the rest of them. I was F'printed back when I used to be in the Nuclear Power industry. (18 or so years ago). It was part of an anti-terrorisim program (nothing like what they have now)...M.
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
Bob, sounds like you'll have valuable advice whenever an accident gets reported here! Some of our best threads had their source in a single accident report. Many "Knotheads" consider it important to let us know about injuries and near-misses so the rest of us can learn from the experience.
Not to steal any of Knots' thunder, but there's a database over at Woodworker's Central under their Accident Survey. Users report accidents there, and you can search by machine and severity of accident, and get descriptions of the incidents and advice on how to avoid a similar incident yourself.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Hi Forestgirl, good comment and I will check the site out. Bob
how about this one - I was sanding a 3/8" square by 12' long Fir stringer for an ultralight canoe. Holding the sandpaper wrapped around the wood in one hand, and moving the wood back and forth with the other.Sliver shot out and through and through my thumb. It looked like Steve Martin with the arrow in his head.Got a plier and pulled it out from the fat end. Wasn't too bad. No vitals hit. KenKen Werner
Hamilton, NY
Ouch!
My bandsaw cut didn't hurt much. Just made me woozy. But a big sliver...I'm cringing just thinking about it.M.
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
It didn't hurt much. I just looked at my thumb in amazement. Who would have thought that hand sanding is dangerous?
KenKen Werner
Hamilton, NY
I was sanding a baseboard one time and managed to jam a giant sliver under my thumbnail, all the way to the base. It really didn't hurt that much, but I couldn't get it out myself so I had to go to the emergency room. It was an inner city hospital on a Saturday night, so the place was pretty busy with all kinds of gunshots wounds and stabbings and bar fight victims and things, but it was the sliver under my nail that gave the ER doctor the willies. It was pretty funny to see him cringe when I held up my hand.
LOL (laughed out loud) and I told your story to my wife (A Nurse Practitioner) and she agreed with the Doctor. I once cut a short piece of wood on my chop saw. I attacked a bit too hard and the wood got pulled by the blade. ( broke the blade guide behind the fence) Fourtunately the blad was all the way through the table and my hand hit the side of it. It hurt so bad I almost passed out - it was like getting hit with a hammer. My son (age 9 at the time) was standing there. "Russell," I said, "I need to go upstairs and get some ice" as calmly as I could. Got the ice, sat on the couch while my head spun. Got a big bruise at the base of my thumb on my left hand. Lucky I still have the thumb...No more short boards on the chop saw without clamping.M.
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
how about this one -
I was cutting down a old walnut tree to get that wood.. Well, to make a long story short.
I had a rope wrapped around my hand... Cut a big branch part way through and was going to pull it down so it would not hit the house......BIG Tree branch fell a shot me like a sling shot across the yard.. Took a year before I could use my hand again...
Yep, I do stupid things!
BOB! ....I am a retired orthopedic surgeon!....
I forgot to add...
Orthopedic surgeon worked on my oldest daughter long ago.. Probably not that bad compared to some but I still thank that doctor.. She is beautiful and all her bones work great!
Edited 3/19/2005 11:52 pm ET by Will George
Hi forestgirl and thanks again for your reply. I did not get into the data base but will try again. That is a good service though. Yes, I will share some cases, mine first to all. Bob
What you are looking for is here.
Some pretty nasty stories there...
Most seem to be of the "I was tired" sort.M.
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
Yep, hobbyists coming home after a full day of work and going out into the shop.
Beat you to it, cstan, and even explained what it was. You going back to your cryptic posts??forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Good Lord, what is cryptic about posting a link to an accident database when the original poster was wishing for one....
I was just giving you a dig in the ribs for that amazingly short, and redundant, post. Don't want to start another feud here :-)
Bob doesn't seem to be "looking for" a data base: "How about extending that approach to this group. Specifically, report an injury, how it happened and how it could have been avoided." I simply posted the info from WWC as an example from another site.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Thanks to all of you who replied to the safety issue. I checked out Wood Workers Central and it looked as though this was a pay subscription service. Is that correct?
I was not looking for a data base but was more interested in having forum participants share their own experience with others. I have found that approach to be very effective and if it only saves one person from having an injury it is worth while.
As a new member of this group I am some what awkward in navigating the site so bear with me if I fail to reply.
I think there should be a special category for safety that automatically shows up each time you sign in if there is a new posting. I think that is better than having to go to the safety discussion in order to find a posting. Could this be done? Bob
Bob, you're doing great with your navigation. General Discussion or Tools would be the appropriate category for safety discussions. Woodworker's Central is not a "paid" thing. The various membership levels you saw are for those who want to support the site monetarily, but it's not required. You may need to register, though, in order to participate. I can't remember! I've been there a long time, and the password is in my computer, so I don't remember what the deal was with registration.
The database is a collection of user reports of various accidents. They call it a database, because it can be searched, if you wish, by a specific machine or seriousness of injury. Were you able to access the main page for Accident Survey? They have a very good forum there too (WWA Infeed/Outfeed), and whenever someone has an accident in the shop, they are encouraged to make a report to the Accident Survey -- preserves the info for posterity, LOL!
We're always open to discussions at Knots about safety. They tend to occur on a as-experienced basis. Can you tell us about some that were beyond the ordinary, most-common occurences?
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Bob,
As I type I have four stiches on the inside of my right thumb. Accidents happen when we get into a routine. Here's my tale. While about to resawing red oak, I had to set up for "drift" I had my safety glasses on, ear plugs in, heater on (I live in Wisconsin), exhaust fan on, radio on, and vacuum hooked up and on. I set the drift and left the saw on (First mistake). Walked over to get my material and came back to the saw (did I say I left the saw on?). Had a brain fart and wanted to see if there was suction from the vacuum. Slipped my hand under the table and BAM! My thumb was bitten by a 3/4" 4tpi hooked blade.
I pulled it away and inspected it. Sure enough, It was cut but good. Wrapped it in a "clean" shop towel, turned everything off and went it the house to rinse it and inspect it futher. After washing it out and opening it up, I knew I needed stiches. Proceeded to the emergency room, and low and behold, four hours later I was done. Now the worse part. I had to call my wife and explain it to her (her nick name is Safety Sally).
That night after her one sided speach, I knew I did wrong. She was concerned that if I would of cut my thumb off I wouldn't be able to peel potatos. My reply was "potatos hell, I would have to use my left hand to do manly things" she smiled and all is well now.
All joking aside. I now will take my time and turn things off when I walk away. I did finish my resawing and I too, use a push stick.
Joe
"Great" story. Damn bandsaws - I think we forget that they can be as dangerous as a table saw sometimes.Drill press is the same way.When I was in college, I had a summer job at a shop that made parts for Jet Engines (We were a Pratt and Whitney supplier). One of my jobs was to wire brush out the inside of stainless steel tubing prior to or after brazing. The wire brush was put int a drill press and spun at low speed. I leaned into the wire brush and lost a handful of hair - pulled it right out of my scalp. I wore a hat every day after that. First to hide the bald spot, then to protect my hair. (Boy I wish I had that hair now :-)Oh and don't forget, just because power is not applied to a tool, you can still get hurt.How many times have you cut youself with a chisel or a utility knife, pinched youself with a pair of pliers, hit a thumb or finger with a hammer?M.
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
How many times have you cut youself with a chisel or a utility knife, pinched youself with a pair of pliers, hit a thumb or finger with a hammer?
************I was smoothing a half-lap one day and got into a hurry, instead of walking around and working from the other side or turning the piece around, I used a one-inch chisel left handed.It slipped, of course. Now I have a nifty scar on my right hand showing how sharp I keep my chisels.At the time, I watched it bleed, thinking, "D**n, if I hit that vein I'm going to have to have Donato stich it up and he'll give me h**l."Fortunately I'd missed the vein -- and a tendon. Pulled it together after I soaked/irrigated it in Betadine, it healed relatively clean. A couple of days later I had one of the ED docs (not Donato) look at it, David said I should have gotten a couple of stitches, suggested I get some steri-strips if I was too dumb to get him to fix injuries in the future.FWIW, sharp chisels don't hurt much when they slice into you. I suggest going with my word on it rather than checking it yourself.Leon Jester
> ... hit a thumb or finger with a hammer?
One thing I've noticed is that if you hold a nail down near the point with your fingers against the wood, and miss, you smash your fingers. If you hold it up near the head and miss, there is a tendency -- not an absolute guarantee, just a tendency -- for the hammer to push your fingers aside and just put a ding in the lumber.
Another nail starting trick, strictly for rough framing: Hold the head of the hammer with one side in the palm of your right (or left if left handed) hand. Wrap your fingers around it in such a way that you can hold a nail with the nail head against the other side of the hammer head. Then just poke the tip of the nail into the wood. The hammer head spreads the force over your hand, so you don't get hurt. Then you can change your grip and drive it home. This works well when you're on a ladder or something, and want to use your other hand for something like hanging on.
-- J.S.
Your story reminded me of one of the biggest issues in the shop I used to work. Pilot lights on power switches. There were none and in a shop full of woodworkers, tablesaws, jointers, routers going you absolutely had your hearing protectors on. So you would never hear a machine running if someone brainfarted and left it on. Nothing like walking up to a tablesaw and lifting the guard, wrench in hand to change the blade, to find a spinning blade.This is one of those good ideas I'll likely never do but I would really like to incorporate pilot lights into my switches. Just one more layer of safety.
Bob,
Another one for the archives, much along the lines of "I was tired" or more accurately I was STUPID...
About 8 years ago I was building some coffee/end tables that start as a smaller square at the bottom and move up to a larger square at the top. So some compound miters involved.
I'd just finished a cut on the TS, and turned the saw off, when I noticed an offcut bouncing on and off the blade as it spun down. I looked at the offcut; then I looked at my push stick, which had fallen on the floor; then I took my thumb and forefinger and "flicked" the offcut away - along with part of my right thumb. I shouted "sh*&^" and quickly wrapped the thumb in a semi-clean shop towel, which was turning red at an alarming rate. I calmly walked upstairs, looked at my wife, and said "Honey, we have to go the emergency room now." I'm actually laughing about it now, the way I so calmly announced something to the effect of "I believe I may have removed a digit from my hand - shall we proceed to the physician's?"
As I got into the car, reality, as well as pain, started to set in, and I wondered how badly I'd screwed up. Because I quickly wrapped the thumb, I didn't know what the extent of the damage was, and I wasn't inclined to look for fear of passing out or panicking. My mother-in-law, who was visiting at the time, went down to the shop and looked for the missing piece of my finger while we were en route.
The upshot - I got so incredibly, incredibly lucky. Took about 1/8" off the tip, no bone or vital vessels. They gave me a block at the ER, along with a list of hand surgeons, and after checking around saw one the next day, who grafted some skin from my wrist onto the top of my thumb. Had to spend the next two weeks - no kidding, with my thumb elevated above my heart at all times - even while sleeping. This meant creating a special kind of pillow support system that kept me from moving my arm while sleeping.
I remember asking the surgeon a couple of "stupid questions," as I put it. First, would I have feeling in the grafted area? "That's not stupid - You'll gradually regain about 80% of your original sensitivity (I think I've regained slightly more, actually)." Second, would my fingerprint sworls grow back in the grafted area? "Now that's a stupid question." (Apparently the answer is no).
When I saw the surgeon in the hospital for my follow up visit, I saw all of these pictures on the walls of people's hands with their big toes grafted in place of their lost thumbs. That really got to me.
I got lucky. Really, really lucky. I was so shook up, I actually put down the tools for a good while.
Now, I'm kind of a "belt and suspenders" guy - for the most part. I disconnect my machines whenever they're not in use, even if I know I'll be using them again shortly. I never, never, ever rip without a push stick, a splitter and, where feasible, a featherboard. I always retract the blade if I'm not immediately making another cut, and before I do anything after powering down my tool, I pull the safety on it.
If I'm not comfortable with a setup, I don't move forward. I know there has to be a better way, and I listen to the little bells that go off in my head when something doesn't feel right.
Nowadays, if you looked at my thumb from a foot away, it would be hard to see where I clipped it - the donor site's much more obvious. But during the cold months, if I don't keep my hands moisturized, the grafted tip will have a tendency to split or crack.
Lessons learned -
I'm glad I can laugh about it now - but I hope I never do something that stupid again.
Humbly submitted,
Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
Your story reminds me of how many times I've caught myself from doing the exact same thing you describe. It's like our brain shuts off for an instant...Here is a picture of what not to cut in your table saw. The item on the left is a twist-lock from a piece of knock-down book shelves. The item on the right is one that went through the Freud and scared the crap out of me (yesterday) When the wood started to kick up I ducked. Fortunately is was a 36" x 12" x 7/8" medium density particle board - quite heavy for my 1hp craftsman TS. I found shards of metal embedded in my shirt.Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
Hi to all fellow knotheads,
It is truly heartwarming to hear from so many. I can assure you that each person who reads your reports will take something away from the discussion that will last. I certainly have.We try to be safe at all times but sometimes we have other things on our mind and are not attentive to the task at hand.
As suggested I will share some clinical cases but first a couple of my own.
It was summer time and I was wearing a pair of shorts while seated in my shop. I was derusting a tool with a drill mounted wire brush and decided to lock the trigger on the drill. I thought it was a good idea and saw no danger. Have you ever dropped a 1/2" industrial Black & Decker running with a wire brush in your lap? Talk about a wegie from hell!! I can promise one round of that will burn a permanent imprint on your brain, not to mention other parts. The next- I finally,after 20 years, wore my Porter Cable jig saw out. I bought another Porter Cable but this one accepted several types of blades. That was the problem. You cannot have a secure fit for all blade configurations, in my opinion. While sawing and holding the board with my left hand, the blade loosened and angled forward hitting the board in front of the kerf line. It bounced off the wood and before I knew it , the blade had passed through the thenar area (the muscle mass at the base of the thumb) about 3 times. The muscle mass looked like hamburger but fortunately, no vital structures were damaged. I asked the ER doctor to just irrigate, clean and close the skin and took antibiotics for a while and have no significant residuals. I was lucky.
I reported this to Porter Cable. They were most interested and had their design engineer call me. They sent me a different type of jig saw(gratis) which was specifically designed for the hook type blade. I think that saw was phased out but what a great company to do business with. They care and work hard to make great tools.
Bottom line: The drill incident speaks for itself and the jig saw? Make certain you have tightly locked in the blade or you could experience a similar accident.
BobW
First, I'm glad there was no serious damage. Second, my wife and I both laughed out loud at your expense over the drill in the lap story. Thanks for the chuckle.Safe woodworking,
Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
How about this wire wheel in a drill story:I cleaned omething with a hand drill mounted wire brush. Uneventfully. A little while later, I felt what seemed like an unusually large booger in my nose. Fished out a 3/4" long single wire. No pain, no damage. Didn't see or feel it go in. How about those safety glasses?KenKen Werner
Hamilton, NY
"...unusually large booger in my nose. Fished out a 3/4" long single wire." Ahhhhh, Jeeeeeeeze. That's creepy! Better your nose than your eye, though, I guess. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I'll share my power-drill nightmare: I was modifying a big funky bookcase to hold cut-offs and such out in the garage. Needed to put sort-of "outriggers" on the back so it wouldn't tip over when rolled around, and was drilling a 1/2" hole in a 2x4 that was about 10" long, using my Makita drill (read: good power!). Somehow or another, this involved putting a small Bessey bar clamp on the 2x4, can't remember exactly what/why, but man! when the drill bit broke through the back of that 2x4, I lost my grip on the assembly and that bar clamp went spinning!!! Whacked me right in the knee-cap twice! *#$%!%#.
Moral of the story: Don't get lazy about securing the work, and beware of big drill bits and high RPMs.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I was re-wiring my house, crouching in a cramped space behind the kneewall in the attic, drilling down through the top plate of a wall with a large bit and my 1/2" (read: power) Makita drill. The bit hit a nail or something and the freaking drill starts me spinning until I collide with a rafter or the wall or whatever. Those drills are real, real powerful.
Hmmm, I have to question the wearing gloves while woodworking with stationary power tools.I've always heard never do this. Kind of like wearing rings or watches. Chances are it will catch and pull you in instead of just getting nicked. Plus you lose some feedback just by wearing gloves. If you need to control something close to cutters push blocks are a better option.You don't sound like your a beginner so no offense intended.
No offense taken. I understand the logic of not wearing gloves, and I don't around certain pieces, sucah as a drill press. Still, I've had an incident where (because my technique was poor) my hand came too close, and were it not for the glove, there'd be a big chunk ripped out of my flesh instead. Also, I work with a lot of rough boards and found wood, and am really tired of getting splinters.
When I do use them, I use the canvas gloves with the rubber dimples all over the palm and fingers. It gives me good control. As for push blocks and sticks, I don't do anything on my saw, jointer, etc. without them, and I also make heavy use of featherboards where possible.
Still, I wouldn't press anyone else to wear gloves in certain circumstances; it just seems to work well for me.
Thanks for the comment.
Regards,Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
I agree with you, Mitch, that gloves can be OK if not downright useful, incertain power-tool conditions. I most commonly will wear a pair when cutting plywood at the table saw. I used to wear the rubberized garden gloves by Atlas. But recently, a new design has come out -- they are close-fitting, fine-knit gloves with (I think) neoprene palms and fingers. They are much thinner and tigher than any other high friction gloves I've seen.
I have been tempted to wear them at the jointer, but realized NO! not a good idea. :-)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Jamie,
If you have a chance and can locate the info, I'd love to know who makes them and what they're called. Also, are they available at a big box or specialty store?
Thanks,Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
My brother, who is not a very experienced wood worker comes over occasionally and uses my shop. My idea for keeping his fingers intact without me warning him everytime he uses the machines was to laminate a piece of paper with big bright bold print on it that says " WHERE ARE YOUR FINGERS, WHERE IS THE BLADE?". I put these next to the power switch on every machine, I find it also serves as a reminder to myself to pay attention. Notice I said next to the power switch, I think if you could see it when using the machine it would then become a distraction.
Edited 3/24/2005 2:55 pm ET by steelheader
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled