Replies

1. 
   BobSmalser | Nov 02, 2003 07:57am | #1

   Were it me, I'd just wear a dust mask and have at it.

   Here's a piece from a guy in the industry on it:

   "I've worked with lead and asbestos removal…about $30-$50 million US dollars worth. The lead scare has actually made my greedy corporation rich and put the small paint business out on the street!

   I would actually not suggest using a heat gun. The high heat from the gun can actually make the lead volatilize in small quantity (parts per trillion in atmosphere I'm saying) making it more likely to be absorbed by breathing or dermal exposure. I would also suggest not sanding it if you are paranoid. In fact, I would suggest not learning anything about the world around you, because eventually you are going to die and SOMETHING is going to cause it. But I would even more suggest not being paranoid if you are not a professional lead abatement specialist.

   Most of the exposure scenarios designed by US and European health departments are based on a 1 in 1,000,000 increased likelihood of cancer over a lifetime of workplace exposure (8 hours a day 5 days a week for 30 years). So most of the scary precautions that we make are designed to protect against chronic exposure. Lead is a partial bioaccumulant meaning it will persist in the body for some period, but it is not permanent. One time exposure to lead dust or volatilized lead will not build up. Here in the US mining towns around Leadville, Colorado/Miami, Oklahoma to Joplin, Missouri have excellent experience in chronic lead exposure. In those cities ambient lead levels from a combination of Mother Nature and mining refuse are extremely high. There is fairly good research on exposure/incidence of disease for lead.

   Lead and chromium paints in this country continued to be utilized until suitable replacement products became widely available. With the exception of the CFC ban this is how we do things in America. Lead pigment paint is far and away superior in durability to modern paints, and even my own company's Titanium Dioxide products. If the health risks are so high then I am surprised that since the ban (despite also applying to fuel which produced much higher ambient lead fumes) we have not seen a drop in the incidence of bladder cancer, kidney disease, brain tumors, mental retardation, etc. In fact, there is no evidence that we have had a significant impact on human health. There are some studies which indicate improvements in environmental health (birds and whatnot), and I won't dispute those.. but lead is not the bugaboo people think it is. Neither is arsenic, but that is another topic.

   Finally, does your wife burn candles? Because if she does the volatilization of lead from the wick is probably producing a higher level of lead exposure than any amount of solder in your pipes and depending on the frequency of each event your occasional sanding of the skirt board.

   Use a mask. Keep the area ventilated. Realize that you aren't going to live forever... (apples have at least 5 powerful carcinogens + naturally occurring cyanide... charred beef flesh has 16 PAH compounds that are also incredibly powerful carcinogens). And try to enjoy life without the paranoia."

    

2. 
   SIMON | Nov 02, 2003 04:35pm | #2

   They sell lead test kits at Home Depot and hardware stores. About $10 for six tests, last I looked.

3. 
   fdampier5 | Nov 02, 2003 07:37pm | #3

   old buildings are sure to have some lead in them..  unless by old you mean 1985 or something..  (that or it's been over a hundred years since they were last painted and most of the paint has weathered off)  the risks involved  are real.  there is clear documentation that lead has been linked to disease and mental retardation..

     I'm courious about the value of the wood in these old buildings that you would after considering your labor to remove it and the effort it will take to prepare it for reuse you would still consider it a good deal..

     There will be nail holes to fill and chances are you will wind up with smaller than standrd size pieces.

     Having said that there are plenty of large old beams and such that would warrant the effort,  or if they are particularly attracted in their weathered state and valuable as old barn siding in their currant state..

4. 
   forestgirl | Nov 02, 2003 09:22pm | #4

   Even if the paint were lead-free, you would not want to run painted boards through your planer.  I asked this question about a year ago when I had some recovered oak boards to clean up.  The concensus was "No!"  The biggest drawback is that as the machine heats up during planing, the paint can soften in response and totally gunk up the rollers and cutting head on the planer.  One Knothead had personally experienced this situation and it did not sound like fun.  And that doesn't even consider what it would do to the knives.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   PlaneWood | Nov 02, 2003 09:49pm | #5

   FG -

   I've run old painted boards (oil paints) through my planer many times.  I have a DC and have never experienced any 'gunking' up of my knives.  The only times i've noticed my boards getting warm is when the blades are dull.  The cost of cleaning or resharpening planer blades does not outweigh the gain from reviving old lumber, IMHO.  My planer has steel infeed and outfeed rollers.  That might make a difference as opposed to, say, rubber rollers as far as them getting gunked up.

   Which is worse?  Throwing a bag of possible lead based flakes into the land fill, or, cutting down more trees?  If you didn't use the lumber, then how would you safely dispose of it?  Burn it?  Throw it in the garbage cans?  Let it lay out to rot? 

   I think the best path to follow in this regard is probably the lesser of the evils.

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood

1. 
   forestgirl | Nov 02, 2003 09:55pm | #6

   Mike, you must have been "out" when I posted that thread many moons ago.  I suspect you're right about the metal rollers, and also I'd imagine the bench-top planers such as my little Delta 12.5" are more likely to heat up than a stationary planer with a bigger motor.

   I hope I didn't imply that I'm against relcaiming and reusing lumber.  NOT!  I completely support that idea, and indeed do it myself when I can.  But I, personally, would strip the wood first, then plane it.  Unless there is extremely good dust collection off the planer, I'd be very concerned about planing wood coated with lead-based paint.  Even then, there'd be reservations I think.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   PlaneWood | Nov 02, 2003 10:11pm | #7

   Well, my procedure is to open the shop door when ever I plane and turn on the shop fan.  That, plus the 1200 cfm DC keep all dust away from me and out of the shop. Of course living down here affords me the luxury of doing that, even in the winter. 

   Right now, it's 84 degrees out here!  (got a puter out here and networked to the one in the house with both on DSL)  It's great to be able to print mailing labels and invoices out here.  Now if I could just get it to 'ding' every time someone replied to my Knot's messages!!!

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood

5. 
   Telemike | Nov 03, 2003 07:46am | #8

   There is a simple chemical reaction that reveals lead in paint. Sodium sulfide solution in contact with lead oxide produces enough lead sulfide to turn a lead paint layer black. The sodium sulfide is the active ingredient in most lead paint test kits, available at home depot as a previous poster said.

   To test, sand some of the paint with water (to surpress dust) until you've sanded through a really small area. The thickness of various layers of paint is greatly exaggerated by sanding through at a very shallow angle.

   Then, paint with the solution in the bottle, use the applicator with the test kit or (10% weight sodium sulfide in water) a Q tip.

   After a few seconds (or whatever the directions direct), rinse with some clean water and look at it. You may need a magnifying glass, but, if the layers are sanded at a very shallow angle, you can see by eye. Leaded paint layers will turn black, or very dark gray.

   Call the local environmental health folks for disposal advise if the paint has lead, or toss it into the trash if that's the kind of world you want to leave behind.

   Forest girl is right about planing painted wood. The fillers in paint are abrasive. Scrape paint off of wood before planing, otherwise, you'll be sharpening planer cutters.

1. 
   KooKoo | Nov 03, 2003 01:58pm | #9

   I wanted to reply to say thanks for all the comments. I'll have to think about all this since everyones' thoughts are so wide ranging.

   This board really offers some good help.

   Thanks, again,

   KooKoo

   P.S. Any other comments are welcome, too.

1. 
   forestgirl | Nov 03, 2003 08:55pm | #10

   I'll toss out one more thought about leaded paint before bowing out:  Venting clouds of dust to the outside of your shop wouldn't be a great way to deal with any leaded dust.  It's akin to the leaded gas fumes that used to vent from our fuel.  Sure, it might be relatively small amounts, but it's still there.  In my particular home-environment, I would not do that for the simple reason that there are hundreds of birds that skitter around on the ground and in the bushes and trees near my shop, eating, breeding and raising their young. 

   I hope you get some great lumber out of the stack.  I do think it's great to find this old wood and give it new life!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)