I am a new woodworker–having only been doing this a few months, but I’m sure this is probably a question you guys hear all the time–but still important to me.
I currently own a Ryobi table saw, a fairly cheap, but servicable router table, a PC690, the Delta 12″ benchtop drill press, and have just bought the Jet 14″ bandsaw. I have saved an additional $900 and have been thinking about buying the Delta enclosed stand 6″ jointer and the Delta 12 1/2″ single speed planer.
Here is my problem. I have a friend who is a professional furniture maker who thinks I am wasting my money. His philosophy is fairly simple: There are only two major areas of woodworking and that is where your money should be spent: measuring and marking and cutting. He thinks that I should sell the Ryobi, save more money and buy a “serious” saw–Powermatic or General. According to him the only things in the workshop that are critical are your measuring/marking tools, cutting tools, blades and bits. Everything else you work around if you can’t afford the best, but for those items you have to have the best you can possibly afford.
I respect this gentleman a great deal, but the fact of the matter is that I will never have the skill or the reputation to sell a dining set for $25,000. Wish I would, but it just ain’t going to happen. So, I’m asking others who have been through the initial buying phase, and have probably made purchasing mistakes and have had to sell and buy up–what are your suggestions?
I would like to eventually sell the Ryobi and get either a top of the line contractors saw or a bottom of the line cabinet saw. But right now it is servicable and it’s what I have. Buying S4S wood is expensive. I realize no one can tell how to spend my money except me, but any suggestions or relavent experience would be helpful.
Thanks
Replies
With your current equipment, I think the jointer and the planer are the correct decisions. If you are new to wood working then you probably haven't developed the skills necessary to joint a board with a hand plane. The jointer will help you get through many of the inacuracies of your table saw and the ability to face and thickness plane will allow you to salvage a lot of wood that you would have called junk before.
John
bonham, we could be twins!!! Our histories of tool-buying, budgets and approaches are very, very similar. Not surprisingly, I concur with your idea of buying a jointer and a planer. Your friend is right about having very accurate measuring and marking tools, but I'd disagree with him about dumping the Ryobi and not buying the planer and jointer.
A great cabinet saw, at the expense of the planer and jointer, will as you've determined, deprive you of using rough lumber (unless you want to school yourself in the use of hand planes and buy those, which won't be cheap). If the Ryobi is working fine for you, go ahead and buy the planer (I just picked up the Delta 12-1/2" single speed, by price matching between Lowe's and Home Depot, for $169) and a jointer. I will mention, though, that you might be able to do better for your money with a Jet jointer. It generally runs about $50 less than the Delta, and from all I've read is an excellent machine. If you go the "scratch-n-dent" route, you can get it for under $400. I'm picking mine up tomorrow.
You can following your friend's advice on excellent measuring/marking tools. I don't know what kind of miter slot the Ryobi has, but if it will accomodate an aftermarket miter gauge, I'd strongly recommend one. I have the Incra 1000 ($89-$100) and it is an incredible tool -- makes all the different in the world in the cuts produced on my Jet contractor's saw.
I've seen gallery pictures of some spectacular furniture made on a Ryobi saw, contractor's saw, blah blah blah, so there's no reason to dump yours.
Have fun!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 6/12/2002 11:23:44 AM ET by forest_girl
Forest_girl, make sure you have someone to help you with that new jointer, they are not light weight machines by any means. You could hurt yourself if you try to move it alone. John
Oh, believe me, I've hollered for help. I messed my back up big-time with all the shenanigans with the table saw a few months ago -- cost me the equivalent of a new planer for my share of PT!!
The friend who's co-oping with me on the jointer is coming over Saturday morning to unload and set up. Can't wait!! I do think, a mobile base is in order. Garage is starting to get kinda crowded ;~)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Unfortunately, the Ryobi BT3k doesn't come with any miter slot. You can (or could) buy one from Ryobi for the left side. Nothing else i"ve seen on the aftermarket. However, you can easily make your own, which I did years ago. Combine that with the (or any) Incra that forest_girl suggested, and a good blade and you're pretty well set.
It's been years now, but everything I had a issue with the Ryobi, I found a way to fix it. Haven't touched anything there for over two years now, and really don't need a cabinet saw.
Accuracy--that Incra helps, but I invested in several class II squares, calipers, an angle set, long straight edge, feeler guage, and a TS-Aligner. With that you can align every tool in your shop.
And, I'll add another agreement on the jointer/thickness-planer direction.
Gerry
Bonham
It seems to me that there's a difference between how this perpetual question is answered depending on whether you're a professional or a hobbyist. As a pro, The understandable tendency is to choose high quality tools that will pay off in improved production, and justify the higher cost. When I read the posts recommending tools here, I absorb the information, but recognize that the best tool for me may not be the same as for a pro.
As a hobbyist, I have a different perspective. I only get to spend a few hours a week using my tools, so that it doesn't make sense to buy high-end equipment for the small output I generate. I have been doing it long enough to recognize and appreciate the refinements that make high-end tool desirable, but I can't justify being a "power tool collector" even if I can afford some of those tools. Like the next guy, I look at the catalogs late at night and lust after Unisaws, Powermatic 66s, Biesenmeyer fences, Leigh Dovetail Jigs, and 3 hp routers. I admit to being susceptible to tool envy, but I would feel just as foolish for the high- power dudes and dudettes who hang out here to see me with a workshop full of high-dollar stuff churning out novice stuff. So, I make do with my benchtop jointer, even if I could afford the floor model.
I have about the same tools as you do now, and am using a cheap benchtop table saw. I decided that I would only replace my existing tools with better stuff under either of two conditions (1) I come across a real bargain (like my garage sale band saw) or (2) I find that my work is significantly hampered by a tool's capability. I will be replacing my benchtop table saw in the next year, not because it cuts poorly, but because I don't think it is safe enough for what I am doing.
I was looking at new table saws 3 months ago, when I had some extra cash, and decided to get an air cleaner and dust collector instead. I think it was a good decision. Before I buy any more power tools, I am going to concentrate on good basic tools - chisels, sharpening materials, finish brushes, reference books, safety equipment, drill bits, etc. That eats up a lot of money.
Stan
Ah, yes, in an ideal world . . .
I understand the professional's opinion, and if I had unlimited finances, a climate-controlled workshop, and the sheer time to make using it worthwhile, I'd have a [insert top-line Euro-saw of your choice], but hey, at its price, the Ryobi BT3000 is underrated; it's will give you as much accuracy as you can achieve with a contractor's saw. It also provides infinitely better dust collection, a safer Euro-style riving knife, and the sliding miter table, something I would hate to be without. It lacks a 3HP motor, but as a weekender furniture maker, I'd certainly spend any extra money on lumber or other tools before a new tablesaw. If you're having problems with the saw or wonder about how to extend its usefulness, you should definitely hie thee over to the Ryobi Forum where lots of people are willing to help you get the most from the saw. Another good site for jigs and things is Sam Conder's Ryobi BT3000 Jig and Fixture Site.
View Image
By the way, word is the Ryobi BT3000 has gone out of production and stocks are being cleared out. A new version is supposed to appear this fall.
Hi Bonham:
The Ryobi BT3000 was my first table saw. When I got it, I thought it was the greatest saw on earth. While in the meantime I sold that saw and bought a cabinet saw, I still think the Ryobi is a good solid saw. I found the biggest complaint I had was not miter slot. Other than that, it met a lot of my needs.
So, I would stick with the Ryobi for now, and get the planer and jointer. I would suggest you check out used machines or scratch&dent. After all, you are going to scratch and dent it when you use it. I bought the JET jointer. No complaints what-so-ever.
Michael
Bonham,
After much work in the hobbyist realm, I've come to the conclusion that you must first ask yourself what you want to accomplish with the equipment. Had I asked that of myself over the years, I'd probably have much less of the stuff now that I don't use.
In my small shop, I really use the router table (join all thicknesses of hardwood with it), tablesaw (when set up with precision can really act as a jointer), and planer (Dewalt 12.5"). I can handle any task of working with hardwood that involves simple angles. And yes, along the way, I've aqcuired a variety of hand tools for working with compound angles, curves and shapes that are of an extraordinary nature. Oh, by the way, if I had to do it all over again, I would have purchased a bandsaw much earlier, and would have forgone the purchase of the jointer.
In retrospect, I must agree with another respondent, that if you're going to work with power tools that generate a lot of dust, think of your safety and health. Before going much further with the tools, invest in a reliable dust collection system, proper fitting masks with replacement filters, better-than-adequate hearing protection, and plastic or wood pushsticks, etc. to keep your hands out of the way. If your principal work will be with hand tools, then you could invest less heavily in the dust collection.
Good luck
Hi Bonham:
I agree with the previous posts. Buy a planer and joiner. With the money you save buying rough lumber they will more than pay for themselves. Put that money aside and you should have enough for another new toy (er-- change that to read necessary tool to make our family life better).
Be Safe,
Dennis
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled