Replies

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Dec 10, 2006 06:28am | #1

   Crd scrapers take you to a ready to finish surface--except that not all surfaces can be scraped so that a little sanding--over the entire project is a good idea, especially if you plan to stain or dye, so that all surfaces are the same. 

1. 
   bmyyou | Dec 10, 2006 06:34am | #2

   I've scraped a 1/4" cherry box lid and will be putting a gel stain on - do I now have to sand it , and what to start with - 180, 220?

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Dec 10, 2006 01:37pm | #3

   I'd very lightly sand with 220, though I don't like to stain cherry.  Cherry darkens so much in a relatively short period, and the color that it achieves is so rich that I don't like to fool with mother nature. 

2. 
   BG | Dec 10, 2006 01:38pm | #4

   bmyyou,
   My experience is that no matter how careful I am, card scrapers leave tiny hash marks that I can't see till I put on the polish. Therefore, I give a quick onceover with 220 as a last step....180 would probably work too.
   Also, and I may be wrong about this, the film finish (shellac, lacquer, varnish)produces a finish in the 600+ range once rubbed out. If the wood underneath is at least 150 smooth that's good enough....higher is a waste of effort...unless your using a non-film finish.

2. 
   Dave45 | Dec 10, 2006 05:35pm | #5

   I like to sand to either 180 or 220 all over the workpiece just to make sure everything is "even" before I start my finish work.  Scraping and/or planing can leave a different surface than sanding and it can show up during finishing.

   A few weeks ago, I had a large drawer front that needed some heavy sanding (80 grit) and some scraping to fix a small alignment problem in my glueup.  It looked fine when I was done, but I could definitely see it when the finish went on.

3. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Dec 10, 2006 06:05pm | #6

   bmyyou..

   My experience is that card scrapers are in-valuable on hard-wood and in-dispensable on glue ups. So-so on soft-wood but still valuale on glue lines. The scraper should be re-burred often (you'll know when and only takes about 3 minutes to flatten with a file jig and re-burnish on a coffee break once you get the hang).

   Depending on the species, they can leave a finish that is ready to finish or one that requires a little work with the paper. I will use up to 220 grit on occasion with hard-wood and never over 180 grit on soft-wood as higher grit and over-sanding has a tendency to burnish the pores on it if a stain is to be applied.

   Bottom line for me is to slightly moisten the stock after scraping with Naptha or mineral spirits and then you will know if you should proceed. That will blatantly bring out anything hidden to the normal eye. Even if the surface is perfect at that point, a light touch of sand-paper might be in order if the revealing bath raised the grain at all.

   Regards...

   SARGE..

4. 
   ptu | Dec 10, 2006 09:18pm | #7

   I use scrapers on birch with great satifaction, as well as on pine(eastern white)and white spruce.If a scraper is nicely finished and burred, it will leave very few marks, but quite often a little 220 is best finished with.

1. 
   JDA | Dec 16, 2006 02:04am | #10

   I am new to using scrappers. What is the recommended technique for putting a new burr on the edge?

1. 
   Joe Sullivan | Dec 16, 2006 02:25am | #11

   YOu can put an edge on a scraper with a smooth hardened steel rod

2. 
   pzgren | Dec 16, 2006 03:27am | #12

   JDA,

     Here's the technique I use for setting up my scrapers and getting the best performance out of them:

     (This assumes that you are using a rectangular card scraper and are putting a burr on both sides of both long edges -- 4 burrs total. If you want to put a burr on all edges, then just repeat the appropriate steps as necessary for those edges.)

     1) Put your scraper in a vice (if you're using a metal vice, you might want to protect the scraper with wooden or leather jaw protectors) with one of the user edges facing up.

     2) File one of the long thin edges with a fine cut file, so that it is flat and smooth. Flip the scraper over and repeat for the other long edge.

     3) Smooth both long thin edges on a sharpening stone (oil, water, diamond -- it doesn't make much difference; just be careful not to wear a groove into your stone; or you can use a "scary sharp" type system with sand paper and a flat surface). You want them smooth, polished, and square to the flat sides of the scraper

     4) Now smooth the "flats" of your scraper along the edges you just smoothed. Again, you're looking for a square, smooth, polished surface.

     5) Put the scraper back in your vice, with one of the smoothed and polished "user" edges up. Now push a burnisher at about 15° off horizontal (the exact angle is not all that important, but a consistent angle is: a slightly different angle -- say 13° or 17° -- will work just about as well) along the entire edge to draw a burr on one side of the edge; you may have to draw the burnisher across the edge several times (3 to 6 times seem to be about average for my scrapers; you may need fewer or more strokes) to get an even burr. You want to push the burnisher across the edge with a moderately light but firm downward pressure. As far as possible (this may take a couple of times practice to get it down), you want the burr as even as possible and across the entire length of the edge.

     A couple of notes on this process:

        You can tell pretty accurately with your finger tips how even your burr is, but be careful not to slice them while testing it!!

        Be careful not to slice your fingers while pushing the burnisher -- DAMHIKT.  

        Your burnisher can be a purpose-built one or a smooth hardened steel rod -- a smooth screwdriver shaft works perfectly well; smooth and harder than the scraper are what's important. IIRC, most scrapers are hardened to around Rc 48 - 52.

     6) Repeat step #5 on the other 3 sides of the (long) edges. Your scraper is now ready to go.

     When you use it, you'll find that you'll probably have to vary the scraper angle a bit until you get the cut you want. As the burr dulls and wears away, you can extend its working life by increasing the forward angle of the scraper.

     The easiest way to tell whether you have a good burr and are at the "right" scraping angle is that you will get shavings (just like from a hand plane, only finer and smaller). If you get dust, either your burr is not yet properly formed, your scraper angle needs to be higher or lower, or your burr is worn down.

     To use, hold in both hands and use your thumb(s) to press the centre of the scraper forward a bit. Tilt the top of the scraper forward about 15° (this angle may vary) and push forward. You should get shavings.

     Scrapers can be pushed or pulled.

     A scraper holder saves a lot of wear and tear on your hand and thumbs. Veritas makes a very nice scraper holder (it's a bit spendy); one can also be made in your shop from scrap wood and a thumb screw.

     Scrapers get hot -- sometimes real hot -- during use.

     While scraping, be careful not to scrape a dip into your surface.

     Scrapers can be used to smooth the edges of boards as well as the faces. With a little bit of file work, you can also fabricate shop-made profiled scrapers that will smooth things like moldings, etc. (You can use old card scrapers, old saw blades, and mild steel, for example, for making profiled and other scrapers.)

     Hope that this helps you. If you have questions about specifics, feel free to ask. Scrapers are great tools that will give you a very, very nice surface quality, and will tame woods and grain that nothing else (except sand paper) will even touch.Beste Wünschen auf eine Fröhlichen Weihnachten und ein glückliches Neues Jahr!

   Tschüß!

   Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen aus dem Land der Rio Grande!!

   James

1. 
   81treehouse | Dec 16, 2006 05:10am | #13

   A very well written reply.  I hope JDA reads it! :-)

    A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!

1. 
   pzgren | Dec 18, 2006 08:12am | #16

   81, Thanks for the kind words. It's always fun to put together something that will help some one out.Beste Wünschen auf eine Fröhlichen Weihnachten und ein glückliches Neues Jahr!

   Tschüß!

   Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen aus dem Land der Rio Grande!!

   James

2. 
   ptu | Dec 16, 2006 07:50pm | #14

   A well detailed explanation. Thank you. I do some bits a little different. I only set one edge, and file the corners of the other edge a little, so they don't bite so hard on my hands, and I don't use as much of an angle for the burr, I go maybe 3-5 degrees. Its all personal choice, what you get used to. I found it important to take off the old burr before resharpening, using a file flat against the scraper. I will file off both sides, and then the edge, then clean up with green Diamond stone. This is important, as this is where a rough edge will create scratches from your burr. After it is nice and smooth, I'll use a burnisher to roll the burr. Lee Valley makes a good jointing jig, as well as burnisher that you can set the angle on. Different woods want a different angle, but most of this is controlled by your angle of use. Personally, I don't like the Veratis scraper holder, I find it to limiting, but I do wear gloves if I am doing a lot of work. I use pretty well just 3 different card scrapers, stiff, not so stiff, and soft, depending on the work, I also have a 1" wide one a handle for those little corners, a small curved one for profiles, and I buy blank steel from LV, and cut various shapes as I need them. I think scrapers are one of the handiest tool in the box.

   Edited 12/16/2006 11:54 am by skidoo

3. 
   JDA | Dec 16, 2006 09:24pm | #15

   Pzgren;Thank you so much for such a complete and thorough explanation! More than I ever expected.I have a 6 foot long, inch think oak dresser top that will benefit from a quality scraping.Jim D'A

1. 
   pzgren | Dec 18, 2006 08:15am | #17

   Jim, Glad that it was of use to you. Good luck with you dresser top!Beste Wünschen auf eine Fröhlichen Weihnachten und ein glückliches Neues Jahr!

   Tschüß!

   Mit freundlichen holzbearbeitungischen Grüßen aus dem Land der Rio Grande!!

   James

5. 
   Pondfish | Dec 11, 2006 02:25pm | #8

   In my experience, a well-sharpened scraper gives you a finish equivalent to 320 grit.  If you have marks, they could be from chatter (taking too hard a cut) or from defects in honing.   Bending the scraper some as you use it will also keep the edges from digging in and leaving marks.

   Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005
6. 
   Buster2000 | Dec 11, 2006 11:13pm | #9

   I've always been told that it's equivalent of around 180 or so.  I really think it depends on how well you use it and how well you can put the burr on.  My first scraped surfaces were dismal...

   I really hate sanding, so I set out to learn how to use it better over the last few months.  My current project I plan to go straight from the scraper to finish.  Prior to this I've always scraped and sanded 180 and 220.

   In the end I suspect your question has many answers.  Your ability, wood species, desired surface... all these things are important when deciding what you need to do.