Replies

1. 
   highfigh | Dec 18, 2005 06:07pm | #1

   Adding a filter to the downdraft table would help to keep the main filter clean, but once it starts picking up the dust, it won't draw as well as it should. What are you using for a sander, random orbital or is this for inline sanding by hand? If you use a randon orbital, specifically a Porter Cable, Home Depot has a hose (actually for washing machines- it hangs onto the tub for the waste water) that fits onto a PC sander where the plastic filter normally goes. The other end fits onto a Shop Vac hose (the small diameter hose), about as well as you could want. Yes, the DC and vac going at the same time makes more noise, but you'll have almost no dust leaving the area and any time I make noise in the shop, I wear ear plugs.

   "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
1. 
   Jeffrey | Dec 18, 2005 08:19pm | #2

   Highfigh

   I use a PC random orbit sander with the vac hose for sanding alot and it is a great improvement over my old B&D.

   I often find myself using a hand sander (block of rubber type) or one of the small 4x4 pad sanders for finishing work.

   Also, use a belt sander with a dust pick-up (that doesn't work all that well).

   I guess I finally got tired of the dust around the place and am trying to improve things the best I can.

   I have a decent cyclone hooked to all the machies, and an overhead dust (air) cleaner (JDS type) so things have really improved overall.

   Worst offender now is the router (table has dust collection) when used by hand (even with vacuum) and small skill saw saw when breaking down panals.

   Now if I could figure out a way to get those into the cyclone it would be great.

   Jeff

    

1. 
   Dunwright | Dec 26, 2005 09:55pm | #3

   Many of the latest routers are incorporating some kind of vacuum adapter collection. These all work reasonably well when the router's baseplate is in full contact with a surface. Where they seem to fall down is when you do edge treatments.
   For an excellent router/vac attachment to solve that, take a closer look at the Leigh RVA-1 (Router Vacuum Attachment). It is quite adjustable, has a roller wheel in the leading lip, and is spring-loaded to keep better contact with the workpiece. I purchased mine with the D4, through LeeValley. I bought it a while back, and don't recall the price.Arlington, Texas (The dash in Dallas-Fort Worth)
   Practice...'till you can do it right the first time.

2. 
   Ronaway | Jan 24, 2006 03:14am | #4

   Does your cyclone have a neutral vane? If a neutral vane is incorporated in your cyclone you
   probably would not benefit from any further filtration, in fact it will hurt the performance of the table when the filter loads. You may have to clean your cyclone filters a bit more frequently but that's a lot easier and not nearly as messy.

   Just my 2 cents worth.

   Ron

1. 
   Sardog | Jan 24, 2006 04:38pm | #5

   Ron

   I don't think I have a neutral vane in there.

   Jeff

2. 
   forestgirl | Jan 31, 2006 07:28pm | #6

   OK, 'splain to me please, what's a "neutral vane?"  I've never investigated cyclones, so am cluelss in Seattle.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) Do unto others as you tell them they should do unto you....

1. 
   Ronaway | Jan 31, 2006 11:48pm | #7

   A neutral vane is simply a pipe that reaches into the cyclone cylinder on the intake side and from what I understand helps reduce turbulence inside the cyclone so that it deposits the chips and dust more efficiently into the waster container thus sending less dust and chips thru into the filter media and therefore decreasing the frequency of filter cleanings.Ron

1. 
   forestgirl | Feb 01, 2006 07:39am | #8

   Thank you, Ron.  Hmmmmmm, our friend DennisS hardly gets any stuff in the waste barrel of his Grizzly cyclone.  I wonder if it has a neutral vane?  (why don't the call it a "neutral pipe"?)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) Do unto others as you tell them they should do unto you....

2. 
   AntzyClancy | Feb 02, 2006 07:38pm | #9

   Forestgirl,

   Neutral Vain:

   I just started hearing this term in relation to the new cyclones by Grizzly and Onieda.  I don't know which one coined it, but it refers in general to a "turbulence reducing" intake.  Both Grizzly and Onieda have their own designs for this, both of which were inspired by Bill Pentz, who was the original proponent for increasing dust separation efficiency in hobbiest cyclones.  He did the original work (calculations, prototyping, testing) and produces the first working design.  To date, the Grizzly and Onieda designs make an attempt to emulate his design, but they both fall short.  IMHOTodd

1. 
   Ronaway | Feb 02, 2006 08:22pm | #10

   I have been reading all the threads concerning the proposed difference between the Bill Pentz designed cyclone and others. On the subject of cyclone efficiency, I think a lot of effort is being spent discussing what amounts to very little difference. My Penn State 3 hp cyclone incorporates a neutral vane and I do not have to clean my filters nearly as often as I did before. The Pentz design might be more efficient but I think we are spending a lot of time splitting hairs. I ran a test about a week ago in which I left the cleanout door under my filter stack open while vacuuming out some quite fine material out of the base of my cabinet saw. I figured that if anything was going to come thru the cyclone this material would. I saw absolutely nothing coming out after about 3 minutes of sending this material thru the system. Next time I think I will tape a paper towel over the opening and see how much collects on the paper towel. I will report my results. The subject of filter efficiency I think justifies more concern. It is important to know that air coming thru the filter media is filtered to a level that makes it safe to breathe, and adequte amounts of filtering surface I believe helps this process considerably, still I run 2 air scrubbers in my shop just the cover all the bases. I am not advocating that the Penn State cyclone is as good or better than the Pentz design, I am just reporting the results of what I have experienced in my shop.Ron

1. 
   AntzyClancy | Feb 02, 2006 10:17pm | #11

   Ron,You may be right about the new designs by Grizzly, Oneida, and I forgot Penn State, in that they are likely better than previous designs in their efficiency such that there may be "very little difference" between them and the original Pentz design.  Independent testing (not a woodworking mag) or an endorsement from Pentz would satisfy me.  Pentz is the only voice that has been honest about the performance of hobbiest dust collectors and the health risks of poorly designed systems.I commend your efforts in testing your own system, and I am sure you and others on this site are satisfied with your methods and conclusions.  If you check out Pentz's web site, there are guidelines for a more thorough evaluaiton.Todd

2. 
   Buster2000 | Feb 25, 2006 04:25am | #12

   ...an endorsement from Pentz would satisfy me.

   This will be difficult as it appears that all the reviews are off of Mr. Pentz site now...