Replies

1. 
   highfigh | Oct 19, 2007 03:34am | #1

   Strong solvents will dissolve the japanning, so if you need to use any on it, do it quickly. I used citric acid on my planes to remove the rust but I guess any mild acid should work.

   "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
2. 
   JohnWW | Oct 19, 2007 05:35pm | #2

   Bill,

   With light rust just use fine sandpaper on a block, and maybe a light oil, to remove the rust, you'll be done in ten minutes with far less mess and no risk to the Japanning, and you won't have to take the plane apart. Rust removers are only needed on complex shapes and heavy rust. The Japanning is soft, it is just ordinary enamel paint, so don't rub it with the abrasive, but that is easy to avoid on a plane since you are only cleaning the sides and the sole.

   John White
   Yestermorrow School, Waitsfield, Vermont
   Contributor, FWW Experts column

1. 
   bilyo | Oct 19, 2007 08:05pm | #3

   John,

   Actually, the rust on those surfaces can be removed with 0000 steel wool.  However, the bottom is grooved and there are numerous small nicks, chips, and scratches in the japanning.  Cleaning out the grooves and japanned area will be pretty tedious by mechanical means.  Have you or anyone else successfully used the electrolisis method?  I have used it and it works great.  I'm just not sure about what effect it will have on the jappaning.  One account I read says it will do no harm.

   Bill

1. 
   JohnWW | Oct 19, 2007 09:07pm | #4

   The grooves in the bottom never touch anything so they don't have to be perfectly clean. The Japanning is like car paint, I don't think that getting rust remover on it will do it any good and it won't clean up scratches and chips. If this is meant to be a user plane, clean off the rust on the surfaces that count and just use it. Applying a furniture finishing oil on all surfaces and then wiping it off will make small scratches and chips and minor rust that can't be easily removed far less noticeable.John W.

1. 
   bilyo | Oct 20, 2007 04:21am | #5

   Ah. The minimalist approach. That's like telling me not to scratch an itch. It will take a mental shift, but I see your point.
   Thanks,
   Bill

2. 
   jw0329 | Oct 20, 2007 06:43am | #6

   I just tried electrolysis for the first time last week and it worked great. Used a #4 that wasn't anything special just in case. Just water and washing soda (sodium carbonate), a dc power source (car battery charger)and a scrap of steel.A few hours and ALL the rust was gone, including the stuff in the chipped japanning. Just rubbed everything with oil and it looks almost new. Base is badly scratched so I'll be flattening and polishing that out this weekend. New Hock blade and it will be as good as a Lie Nielsen without the price tag.Jimmy W.

1. 
   bilyo | Oct 22, 2007 05:14pm | #7

   Jimmy,

   Yes. I've use it with success in the past, but not with anything that had paint of any type on it that I cared about.  So, the japanning came through the process unscathed?  Good to know.

   Bill

1. 
   jw0329 | Oct 23, 2007 06:33am | #8

   Yep, but be warned I only left it for 3 to 4 hrs. I think I remember reading one article in which he wanted to rejapan it and left it brewing for 24 hrs and the japanning bubbled off. Not sure if he had used stripper first or not, but I'd be cautious. Like I said before, it was a test for me. A later model #4, and I have three of them so I wasn't concerned.Jimmy W.

   Edited 10/22/2007 11:52 pm by jw0329

2. 
   bilyo | Oct 23, 2007 06:43pm | #9

   Thanks for the headsup.  I've ended up using JohnWWs minimalist approach on my #8 and its turning out pretty nice.  Only had powdery surface rust.  So, the bottom and sides cleaned up good using 0000 steel wool and mineral oil.  Used a soft toothbrush and mineral oil on the japanned area.

   Either this plane doesn't have the original blade or someone has gone bizzerk with the grinder.  The blade only has about 1/4" of the hard steel lamination left.  Judging by the overall condition of this plane, it doesn't appear to have had that much use.  Anyway, I would like to find an "original" blade for it (2 5/8" wide) rather than buying a new one.  Anyone have one to sell or know of one for sale?

   Bill

    

3. 
   JohnWW | Oct 23, 2007 08:28pm | #10

   Bill,I've never seen a Bailey with a blade made from two different steels, and I doubt that your blade is made that way. If you are seeing a line across the blade a short distance above the edge it is probably discoloration from someone overheating the steel while sharpening it on a grinder. Try sharpening and using the blade as it is, it may still cut well and keep an edge reasonably well. If it won't hold an edge because the discolored steel has gone soft, you can grind the discolored segment away and the remainder of the blade will be usable. Since the same steel is used throughout the blade, the blade is usable until it is too short to reach through the sole.John White

4. 
   bilyo | Oct 24, 2007 06:30am | #11

   I have a couple of other Stanley planes that also have laminated blades. I understand this is common on older planes because tool steel was so expensive or in short supply during certain times. Only the area below the large slot has the tool steel laminated to the top surface. If you polish the side of the blade a little you can see the line. You can also see it across the bevel after you have it polished. I've seen demonstrations of how blacksmiths used to do this kind of laminating by hand. I know these plane blades were not done by hand, but its an interesting process to watch. This blade has been ground almost to the large slot leaving only about 1/4" of the tool steel laminate left. Also, whoever ground it did such a lousy job of grinding the bevel that it is uneven where the blade rests on the back of the slot in the plane bottom. It is still usable, but not much left.
   Bill

5. 
   philip | Oct 24, 2007 10:18am | #12

   John, for the record, Stanley did have laminated blades at one stage, same for Record planes. Maybe not in America though, I don't know, but I have a couple of these laminated blades, which work quite nicely.Philip Marcou

6. 
   philip | Oct 24, 2007 10:28am | #13

   Billo, stop worrying about the mythical japanned finish- clean it up anyway that suits you.
   Then there is a vast choice out there of black paints such as machine enamels, Hammerites, chassis self etching primers, low bake enamels, catalysed paints, two part packs, to mention a few, most of which are far more durable than the original black stuff.
   Or, if you are bent on heresy, you can even paint the thing a colour other than Black: some of my Records are black and some of my Stanleys are green...Philip Marcou

7. 
   Samson | Oct 24, 2007 05:26pm | #14

   A man after my own heart; the first Stanley I rehabbed I painted an evergreen color.  It's still one of my favorite and most reached for planes.  It the one at the top in this pic:

   View Image

   OP, be warned though.  Many old tool purists will cry heresy! 

   Edited 10/24/2007 2:41 pm ET by Samson

8. 
   bilyo | Oct 24, 2007 06:50pm | #15

   Plilip,

   I'm not a hardnosed collector and, as such, I'm not adverse to repainting if needed.  I think collectors drive up the prices by hording pieces that should be in the hands of users.  I have a jackplane (What is that. A #6 I think) that had little or no finish left and I repainted the iron and refinished the wood.  That one is kind of interesting in that it has no brass parts.  Probably made during or just after WWII.   However, as I noted in my first post, the #8 has about 90% of the original paint (japanning) left and it deserves restoring as much as possible.  As with antique furniture, the original finish does add to the value to a collector.  While that doesn't mean much to me (I'm a user), my son may inherit this stuff some day and, if he doesn't become a user, it may mean something to him if he needs to sell it.  I appreciate your point of view.

   Bill