I use alot of exotics in my work. Iam interested to see if there are ways to teach/pressure/convince other nations to reforrest like we have been doing?
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Replies
Who are "we"? Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
too obscure for a simple man....speak english
It would certainly have helped if you'd phrased your question clearly in english.
You said, "Iam interested to see if there are ways to teach/pressure/convince other nations to reforrest like we have been doing?"
Because you didn't make it clear who "we" are, I asked in return, "Who are "we"?" "We" i.e., presumably you, as the creator of the question could have been a north Greenland Innuit, a south American indigenous indian, an Australian, a German, Japanese, etc., and living and posting from anywhere in the world. You simply didn't say.
For example, if you meant American living in north America by "we" you automatically exclude many visitors and posters at this forum. Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
Edited 3/2/2007 6:47 am by SgianDubh
When I said speak english, I was responding to "who is we slainte?
slainte is obscure...after reading other messages it appears to be a tag/handle/ sign off of some kind
or were you calling me slainte? Lost in translation was the whom do you mean by "we".
At that point I had no idea FWW was world wide in their on line subscriptions..
CoachB
Coach, slainte means cheers in gaelic. You're right. It's a sign off. Pretty much all my messages end with slainte (cheers.)
As is the way of the internet, it's accessible from anywhere in the world. All that's needed is a computer, a monitor and an internet connection. As I suspect you've worked out, I'm not in America, and nor am I an American, although I did live in the US for ten years and still visit. I'll next be in America in April for a short visit.
As I suspect you've also puzzled out, I wanted to know who you were looking for to respond to your opening post, seeing as how you'd said 'we' which was effectively restricting. It potentially restricted your geographical spread of respondents, and also potentially restricted the socio-political and socio-economic circumstances a potential respondent lives in.
I suppose part of the problem is is that I make some of my living from writing. Words to me usually have very precise meanings, or their use or misuse can alter the meaning of something in unintended and subtle ways. A misplaced, misspelled or misused word can change the meaning of a sentence, phrase or paragraph.
It was not my intention to insult you in any way when I asked who you meant by we. I simply wanted to know exactly what you were trying to say as it wasn't clear to me. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Gaelic? OK. Thank you for responding. I knew how the internet works, I just didn't know that FWW had opened their subscriptions world wide. I guess I should have known that as well seeing the mag is printed world wide.
Anyway, in the future I will be much more careful to be inclusive of our eskimo friends and all others.
CoachB
You are being politically incorrect by calling the Inuit "eskimo", and in lower case to boot. The correct term is Inuit, if you are referring to the people living past the tree line on the Tundra. Eskimo no longer exist and are simply a figment of your imagination. By the way, the Inuit also have access to the Internet.
All that being said, bless you for trying to help the mis-guided youth of your city. JL
Thank you for setting me straight...sorry I didn't use the upper case..going to fast...
Nice to meet you
CoachB
I am a bad man who sometimes can not help himself, especially when such a large opening is left to invite me in...fact is, as you get into this group, which is not a chat, FYI, you will see that we are a bunch of nit pickers that are sometimes carried away by our passions. You need a bit of a thick skin, and the ability to recognize the tongue in cheek to get along here. Others in this group are VERY technically inclined and also VERY good at their chosen work (woodwork) and deserve more thanks and respect than they usually get for their participation. There are MANY teachers here (not by profession). They are teachers through action and passion.
So, back to the Inuit vs Eskimo. Eskimo worked when Negro worked in the USA. Black and African American was a step in the right direction and Inuit is in the same evolutionary period of public awareness. In Quebec, where I am from, we have no more Indians. Now we have First Nations people, another move in the right direction.
Clearly you touched a sensitive nerve in me with "eskimo", so that may help you to understand that what is not as important to you is very important to someone else.
...and so I end my ramble and sincerely welcome you to this forum, and hope you will hang around a while. JL
Edited 3/3/2007 6:05 pm ET by jeanlou
Now, Iam confused...did you not think my apology was sincere or are you just continuing the previous conversation?...sorry I am a bit gun shy at this point.
Coach,
I think it was a sincere apology. Just relax, and please stick around. This forum can be quite a bit of fun if you let it.
Lee
Lee,
I am beginning to feel like I did during Pledge week in college... I can sense that there are a lot of fun people in the "Forum" ...but I am having fun at this point.
Yes CoachB, and I simply added to your confusion...so come on in and sit down and grab a wet one...if you don't drink beer we have Eskimo Cola...no kidding...it really does exist in Canada, but it is not too popular any more. :-) JL
OK I am going to stop now. No more puns and jokes for a while. I was serious when I said I hope you stick around.
Edited 3/3/2007 8:27 pm ET by jeanlou
Finally, a joke and some humor...I don't drink( I break out in court appearences) but enjoy an eskimo pie now and then...if they don't those in Canada they are a type of Ice Cream Sandwich.
...and I stay away from ice cream sandwiches because I break out in over weight. JL
good nite, its been a fun day
Good night Coach.
CoachB,
Some of the Native people in the western Arctic call them selves Eskimo. But the difference is that they call themselves that, it is not the whiteman calling them that. Unless you are refering to those people spacificaly, them your term is generic, and is a poor choice, as it is dissrespectful of other peoples culture. Having said all that, I use to enjoy Ekimo Pies myself.
Welcome to knots
Pedro
Jeanlou already spoke to me about this read our correspondence.
Note: I am not here for politics...I never intend to insult people so please just accept that.
Fine with me
Pedro
Phew.... that was fast...is there anything at all a fellow can get away with on this forum of tea cup storms? (,)Philip Marcou
Philip
short answer...no.
As I said in my reply to Coach, I am a bad man and will almost always enter through a wide open door. The fact that I found his initial approach in the forum a little disrespectful may have helped me to enter. I also think that we will all stop beating on him soon. Let us hope he survives the beating. :-) JL
Jeanlou,
I appreciate your reply. As you speak of cutting wood and using cut wood to take care of your family, I was thinking that I was lucky because I don't support us with my wood work, and therefore can afford to be selective in the wood I use, which is usually local (spruce), or near local (birch, or pine), which isn't as fine a wood as some others, but is very adequate for me and my wood work, which relieves me some of the anxieties of decisions over what may be "right" and what may be necessary to live. But then I chose to live here, and the work I do to make real money is build roads (highway construction), and when I look at the difference of the country before we start, and after we finish, it is mind boggling. It isn't ecologically threatening, but it is a significant alteration in the landscape. Is it all really necessary for safety or what ever? I don't know, but it sure is nice road to travel, and some of it cut an hour off the time it use to take to go to town, and it gives us money to live. I use to placer mine for gold, and I always prided my self because I would go out of my way not push some trees over when building a mining road, unless it was the only way, because I saw no reason to destroy some trees because there are millions anyway or for any other reason, and they look kind of nice there. So some other guy probably came behind me the next day and pushed those trees over anyways. So did I accomplish any thing? No, but I think if you think proper, you will act proper, and that is what is important.
Pedro
Pedro
I appreciate your understanding.
Being aware of all the pieces of the puzzle is difficult if not impossible. Doing our best is all we can do, but you displace how much animal life and destroy how much plant life building a road so that people can do business more efficiently?..and I encouraged the cutting of how many rainforest trees and the destruction of how much ecosystem while working my trade?
We can not stop the evolution of our society. We can only do our best. JL
An excellent question, Coach. Seeing as how you're new, could you introduce yourself? What country and area thereof you live in? Where reforestation has been done with vigor? Here in the Northwest USA, we're just barely hanging on.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Sorry,
I am a retired football coach who is still teaching/reclaiming gang bangers out here in california
I have a small company Called Coach Works....I do all the work.
Interesting job, teaching "gang bangers", obviously it has a different connotation there, than here. Can you explain?
Pedro
Gang Bangers are members of street gangs in the US who engage in violence, drug dealing and all manner of crime.
Thanks, I never heard them called that .
Yes Pedro
Where I come from, I suspect we have a similar understanding of the word Gang bangers, and I do not think that is what coach is talking about...or is he?
As far as reforestation in Canada goes, the majority of trees planted are softwood (fir), usually to replant areas that have been clear cut by the logging consortiums. The reason they do it is to try control soil erosion and in order to have a political tool when they are attacked for clear cutting (as they should be attacked when they do this horrible thing). There is no hardwood reforestation going on here that I have heard of (if someone knows different, please let me know).
Working wood has allowed me to raise a family and make the savings necessary to live comfortably for the rest of my days. For this reason I never paid too much attention to logging practices and the way the forests were managed. Yes, I was aware of what was going on, but I was not prepared to jeopardize my livelihood. When I wanted Palisandre rosewood, or Santos (a more politically correct version of Rosewood), or teak or purple heart or whatever to build a project and sell for a profit so I could continue to raise my family, I was aware and paid lip service to the movement around me that was trying to save the forests, but I purchased the wood anyway, built the projects and sold for profit.
When Hydro Quebec built their power dams to supply our electricity and then built more to supply some of the American demand, I was correctly outraged at the flooding of all the millions of hectares of forest, but it happened anyway. Once again I did nothing other than talk a little around the lunch truck on the jobs, but I was not going to stop the progress that was hydro electricity,, nor was I going to agitate that the projects stop because thousands of construction workers were feeding their families because of this work.
We all want the lovely hardwoods to play with, so we all contribute to the demand that encourages the supply chain to continue supplying. Some of it is done by responsible companies and some is done by companies not as caring.
When the European nations started to plant teak and other exotic woods in the areas where these woods grow, it was only after they also almost destroyed the resource by over use and poor management.
It is easy for the people of the western world to be indignant when a poorer country strips their forests so they can sell to us for profit. Let us not forget that we also did it, for a very long time(strip the forests), and therefore we should be a little less indignant and a little more understanding. Everyone , after all, wants a piece of the pie. We already have our very big piece, so why are we trying to keep others from their smaller piece?
Enough for now...ranting on and on I could continue until everyone falls asleep. JL
Gang Bangers are members of street gangs. They deal in drugs and violence..I have lost a few students to the graveyard and many more to the jails.
Enter "Save the Rainforest" in Google. Open your checkbook and contribute. There are more and more plantations being bought and the news is not all bad. Islands like Dominica are very Eco-conscious and ecotourism is becoming more and more popular helping to preserve equatorial forests. Making tropical woods profitable will lead to fewer plots being cleared for other crops or beef.
Lee
Thanx,
will do
Most of the "reforestation" in North America is more like planting crops - vast areas of single species plantings. It's not a healthy reforestation at all.
thanx & nice to meet you
Reforest ?? Here in NE Ohio the reforesting is under the control of Mother nature. This area is Maple/Beech climax and gets back to that after the progressive regrowth cycle after nearly a clear cut. There is some selective cutting of 8" and better. But Generally there is not a replanting, In that view how can "We" the USA question why the governments of the rain forest countries deforest and clear cut.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Tree farms/ranches what ever? Green Cert renewable...maybe reforrest is a misnomer.
So I ask again, is there programs like this in other countries...are we assisting in any way...no one should be judging anything but their own work.
I believe Germany and England have very strict laws about forest management. And I'am sure they do a much better at it than the greedy and wastefull US counterparts. Though Weyerhauser(sp?) does claim to be a big replanter ?Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Hi,
By law in Oregon you have to replant after you log. Here's the link: http://www.oregon.gov/ODF/PRIVATE_FORESTS/reforestrqmts.shtml
The reforestation law was passed in 1929, because people would clear cut and then forfeit the land for unpaid taxes. Pretty stupid on the state's part, they could have replanted and had billions in timberland for very little investment, just think of all that state owned spotted owl paradise, gone due to a lack of government foresight. Private land ownership in the state is just around 45%.
Weyerhaeuser owns 1.1 million acres of land in Oregon and a little more Washington. 6.4 million acres owned in the US and 27.6 million acres owned in Canada. That's enough land to keep yourself in timber perpetually if you replant and manage it well. Here's the link to their fact sheet:
http://www.weyerhaeuser.com/aboutus/facts/WeyerhaeuserInBrief.pdf Note: they are recognized in the North American Sustainability Index. The only forest products company in that list.
Weyerhaeuser is a publicly held company with 236 million shares outstanding. They are beholden to their shareholders to enhance share value.
If they log their property in Oregon they have to replant or it devalues their land. A future buyer would assume the liability to replant and would want accomodation from the prior owner if it hadn't already been replanted.
I can't speak to replanting laws in Washington. Private timberland owners I know in Oregon contract logging companies to replant as part of the agreement when timber is harvested.
German forestry management wizardry?
I lived in Germany from 1988 to 1993. A freak wind storm blew threw most of the country and downed tens of thousands of trees. They quickly bucked up the logs and stacked them around along the roads through the forest by the town we lived in. Most of the logs showed core rot. This means the tree was dying when the winds came. I would guess 20% of the trees in the woods by us blew down. I hear the German forestry management wizardry comments occasionally and always think back to the 'sick' trees that I saw knocked over. The forests weren't particularly thick, so I am not sure why the trees were weak. This was halfway between Stuttgart and Tuebingen, near the Schoenbuck Nature park. A generally rural area. I assume it's air quality related. When I left there I think the land area of Germany was the size of Montana and they had 80+ million people. Could have been a beetle infestation or something like that that caused it or very cold weather prior to my arrival there.
Regards,
Ken
"Do as you would be done by." C.S. Lewis
That's good information. I spent a lot of time in Oregon and learned a great deal of their conservation methods...Unfortunately then I was working for a company that wanted to buy up the land and build....we didn/t succeed.PTL.
Thank you
Coach,Quite honestly, the only systematic "reforestation" being done on a large scale are by the pulp mills and paper companies. These "tree farms" are typically single specie, fast growing (think aspen, larch, fir, pine) and perform no ecological function due to lack of diversity.For the most part, trees are cut and mother nature takes her course. All that beautiful PA cherry we've seen over the last 20-30 years is due to the widespread tree harvesting done in the late 1800's. Cherry is a pioneer species, relatively short-lived. Today, selective cutting is more typical for hardwood harvesting and doesn't create the open spaces in which cherry thrives. Who know, in 50 years we may have cherry plantations in the same manner teak and mahogany are grown.enough rambling,Jim
"There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other is that heat comes from the furnace." - Aldo Leopold
So teak and mahogany are grown of plantations to be renewable? OK thanx
Like Richard, I also wondered exactly who "we" are.
The place I live (Israel) has carried on the most extensive state policy of tree planting in modern times. For all the good it has done, it still hasn't replenished the original forests that were completely destroyed (throughout the middle east) at the dictate of the Ottoman Empire over 100 years ago.
Responsible replanting is such an obvious necessity that we don't need to belabor the point. But don't fool yourself into thinking that you get the same forest back again. Not in our grandchildrens' lifetimes anyway.
David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e
never did, I just answered the poll when I suscribed...didn't want to belabor anything. Life is simple ....it take effort....every change in history has been because some unreasonable person or persons pushed until something got done.. Sure everyone knows the problem but who is doing anything...and as you know sometimes doing things that seem to help cause many more problems.
I am done.
"I just answered the poll when I suscribed..." AhHah! Here may be the source of our confusion. I'm not sure any of us knew there was a poll going on.
Sorry you got a rough start here.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thank you.
Interestingly ring, where I am, the UK, the percentage of forested land to unforested land hasn't changed much in the last 2,500 years or so. I just can't recall for the moment what those percentages are.
What with invasions by various peoples from mainland Europe and elsewhere, such as the Romans, the Vikings, the French, etc., the old original forests are long gone as the land was deforested and turned over to agriculture, towns and cities. The wood of course was needed for building a host of things, fuel, and for implements of various sorts. Indeed, we probably mistakenly think that species such as oak, beech, birch, maples, hazel, hawthorns, etc., are indigenous to these islands. The chances are that very few of those species are.
The early forests, going back about 5,000 to 8,000 years ago were likely dominated by limes (aka lindens) and things like Scots Pines, particularly in the north.
Interestingly, the last Winter Fair held on the Thames in London was I believe somewhere between 1810 and 1820-- these winter fairs occurred on and off for about 100+ years in the late 1600's, through the 1700's and on into the early 1800's. The Thames hasn't frozen over once since then.
Perhaps even more surprisingly it's believed that between about 800 to the late 900's AD (or thereabouts) the weather was warm enough to support viniculture in the Scotttish Borders. There is supposed to be a strong suggestion that this is the case through archeological research undertaken at the site of the ruins of Melrose Abbey. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Economics will force reforestation, if there is any economic force. If it is cheaper to not replant (as in, there are other trees to cut down still), it won't happen at any reasonable level. If timber farmers see there won't be any more money soon because the trees will be gone, replating will happen--or if the legal penalty for not replanting is more expensive than replanting.
The saying is people vote with their feet. How they choose to vote is based on their pocketbook.
Well, seems like programs for farmers growing food crops should be amended to help those who grow timber...taking into account the leadtime on the crop and the amount of land etc....rewards for the stewards.
Cut all the rain Forests down.
John
That's alot of lumber in the ol inventory...we'll all have to make alot more furniture or what ever
When it burns it leaves plenty to knaw at.
Cut all the rain Forests down.
Ah! I figured it out! You actually hate trees! This all makes sense, you use woodworking to legitimize your mutilation and torture of otherwise inncoent trees!
Dear Buster,
"Ah! I figured it out! You actually hate trees! This all makes sense, you use woodworking to legitimize your mutilation and torture of otherwise innocent trees!"Let me correct you:1) I use woodworking to pay the bills.2) I use a wood chipper to torture and mutilate. I like em when they're still babies. Sometimes, when I listen real close........... I can hear them whimper...........Best,JohnEdited 3/2/2007 8:10 pm ET by Jmartinsky
Edited 3/3/2007 7:07 am ET by Jmartinsky
I know that countries like brazil have passed laws stopping the cutting of rainforest timber. But this hasn't stopped it from happening. We have to realize that timber is that countries biggest export (i.e. money maker) Therefore who are we as a global community to say that it is wrong to cut down. If we say that they can not cut down there trees, then the goverments of the world should be subsbizing brazil with money to encourage them not to clear cut.
Just my thoughts.
http://www.kalafinefurniture.blogspot.com
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