Replies

1. 
   user-196729 | Apr 05, 2007 10:40pm | #1

   Have you used a digital indicator on the front and back of the blades at full saw blade height?  The saw marks indicate that the trunions may need adjustment to square the blade to the fence, or the blades may have a slight warp.

1. 
   Tony Z | Apr 06, 2007 01:52pm | #6

   Remember, though, MAKE SURE THE SAW IS UN-PLUGGED!!!! 

   Also re-indicate the arbor to ensure your first measurements were correct.  If the top of the arbor is ground, indicate it also to make sure the arbor shaft does not have a mis-alignment or bad bearing.  .002 seems a bit high.  About ten years ago I bought a Grizzly cabinet saw (all I could afford at the time) and the arbor had that much run-out.  Being that I employed several machinists, I disassembled the saw and had the bearings replaced and the arbor face and top ground true (for future checks).

   Total time was barely an hour or two and cost of bearings.   Before the surgery, the saw burned rips, etc.  Since then, it runs very quietly and if a burn ever occurs, its my technique.

2. 
   CharlieStanford | Apr 05, 2007 10:45pm | #2

   If you mount your other blades and they work fine I think it's safe to assume the saw is in tune.  You certainly don't want to have to re-tune the saw just to accommodate some quirk in the Freud unit, do you?  I wouldn't.

   I'd take it back.  Maybe try another one. 

1. 
   mapleman | Apr 06, 2007 02:50am | #4

   TPFKA,

   I agree. I am definitely not planning to re-align the saw for a specific blade. Just wanted to see what others might have to say. And, by the way, if this blade goes back, I won't waste my time trying another via mail order what with the shipping, etc.

   Lee

1. 
   CharlieStanford | Apr 06, 2007 05:39pm | #9

   Of course the key, to me at least, if whether or not the other blades you own seem to be cutting well.  If they are, then I think the conclusion is obvious.

   TerryLee has it right.

   Edited 4/6/2007 10:39 am ET by ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs

3. 
   rwdare | Apr 06, 2007 02:31am | #3

   If your blade is square to the mitre slots, then your rip fence needs adjusting. IMHO when ripping on a properly adjusted saw, there should be NO burn marks.

   Dick

1. 
   mapleman | Apr 06, 2007 02:53am | #5

   Hi Dick,

   Thanks for the reply. The blade is aligned to the miter slot, and the fence is aligned to the miter slot with maybe a few thousands of an inch extra at the back edge of the fence.

   I am not getting any burn marks whatsoever, with any of the blades.

   Thanks,

   Lee

4. 
   Knotscott | Apr 06, 2007 02:13pm | #7

   Grabbing at straws to find a variable other than the blade....

   - How tightly do you snug the arbor nut?
   - Is the stock square and straight with a reference edge along the fence?

   
   

   ---

   Edited 4/6/2007 11:13 am ET by Knotscott

5. 
   terrylee86 | Apr 06, 2007 03:42pm | #8

   Lee,

   I think you have eliminated all the variables in this experiment except one.  It seems to be the performance of the Frued blade.  If the other blade are behaving in the same environment, then it has to be the the new variable.  I bought a WWII special grind with a stiffener at a show a couple of years ago and it performed better than any blade I have ever used, but I still have to run the cut over the jointer.  I wouldn't trust any saw cut to be glue line ready.  You can even screw up a glue line by running stock too fast on the jointer. 

   You already have the best blade you need.  Take the other one back.

   Terry

1. 
   mapleman | Apr 06, 2007 07:56pm | #10

   Hi Terry,

   I agree with you 100%. I have a jointer, so my aim is not so much to be able to glue straight from the saw, just to see if I could eliminate the saw marks (or keep them to a minimum). Some of the people here at knots claim to be able to glue up straight from the saw with this blade, so I guess I tried it mostly out of curiosity to see if it was really that much better.

   The blade is back in the box, ready to be returned on Monday.

   Thanks to everyone who posted for your help.

   Lee

1. 
   Knotscott | Apr 06, 2007 08:50pm | #11

   You can get glue ready edges from many blades without any touch ups. The edge doesn't need to be polished to a shine to be glueable. All my 40T, 50T, 60T and 80T blades are very capable of glue line edges...Edges from a standard 24T ripper are a bit on the rough side but I've glued them successfully too.

6. 
   JohnWW | Apr 06, 2007 10:12pm | #12

   Glue line rip blades achieve a very clean edge on the stock by using the sides of the specially ground teeth to basically plane the cut edge smooth.  These blades are especially sensitive to rip fence alignment, arbor runout, the straightness of the fence, and the straightness of the edge of the stock that is riding against the fence. 

   They also don't work well if they are the least bit dirty.  Handling the blade roughly will also throw them out of line and create a rough cut.  All in all, I think they are too fussy to be worth using, it is far easier to just clean up a ripped edge on a jointer.

   Presuming the fence and stock are both straight, and the rest of the saw is good, fine tuning the alignment of the rip fence by trial and error to find the sweet spot where the blade cuts best may solve your problem.  Just because other blades work well on your saw doesn't automatically mean that the new blade is defective.

   John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine

1. 
   mapleman | Apr 07, 2007 02:32am | #13

   Hi John,

   Thanks for the input. I agree it's easier cleaning up the ripped edge on the jointer. All in all, it seems  that  fine tuning the saw for this one blade would be a bit of a hassle. I am returning the blade, but I don't put all of the blame on it. You have shed some light on glue-line rip blades that I was not aware of.

   Thanks,

   Lee

1. 
   CharlieStanford | Apr 07, 2007 03:12am | #14

   Good move.  If everything else works on a tool but one certain something or other you'd be a fool to re-tune the machine to work with the one something or other to the detriment of the other something or others that work just fine as-is.

1. 
   OB | Apr 07, 2007 03:51am | #15

   Have you taken measurements of the run out on the Glue line rip blade?Good, better, best never let it rest until your good is better & your better best.

2. 
   KeithNewton | Apr 07, 2007 05:01am | #16

   Just for the learning experience, and ammo for when you contact Freud, I would put the blade back on and measure the run-off with a dial-indicator. I would also turn the blade on and then back off, and touch the side of the bade as it winds down with a pencil to mark the high spots. You might even touch the side of the teeth as it winds down and try to mark the trouble ones individually, and mark them.Then loosen the nut and rotate the blade about 30º, and repeat above, and do that a couple more times, touching the pencil at a progressively smaller diameter each time, and note whether the high point moves with the blade, and how much it is out at each position.If the high spot moves each time the blade is rotated, then the arbor might be a big part of the problem. If the high spot stays the same place on the blade, it is definitely the blade.I did this with a 16" blade from the same company back when they first came out with a whisper blade. That is the worse blade that I ever bought, and is the loudest blade that I have ever owned, and the most expensive. However they didn't take it back, so after spending about $160, I never use it. I bought a delta blade that is much quieter, and cuts better for half the cost. Good luck on getting your money back. They will never get another nickel from me. Keith Newton

1. 
   mapleman | Apr 07, 2007 07:46am | #18

   Keith,

   That is all good info on checking blade/arbor runout. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle of a huge job, so I'm not sure if I want to spend 30 minutes or more screwing with the blade. But I think I may just to put my suspicions to rest. I will definitely print out your post and save it for future reference.

   Luckily, I bought the blade from woodworker's supply, mail order. I have not had a problem yet with returns from them. If I do with this order, I will just kindly remind them that it's not in their best interest to pi$$ me off since I spend $100-$200 every 6 weeks or so with them.

   Cheers,

   Lee

1. 
   CharlieStanford | Apr 07, 2007 01:15pm | #19

   All manufacturing results in some defective units.  Some won't be discovered by whatever quality control measures are in place.

   If you have time in the future maybe give Freud another shot, but anybody who has ever tried to do this for a living understands your frustration.

2. 
   mapleman | Apr 07, 2007 05:43pm | #20

   TPKA,

   I will definitely give them another shot in the future. I have quite a few router bits, and a few other Freud blades and could not be happier with their performance. Like you said, it's probably just a mistake that was overlooked.

   Lee

7. 
   BobMc | Apr 07, 2007 05:32am | #17

   <Stuff that probably doesn't matter: blades, voodoo, etc> 

   I noticed some light burning on the fence side of the rip kerf (as opposed to the offcut side) when ripping hard maple.  Using accurate instruments, the blade parallelism was spot on, the blade was perpendicular, the fence was set accurately.  In a fit of frustration, I ran a dial indicator the length of the fence at a couple different heights.  I found about a .002 to .003 inch bulge opposite the arbor.  I highlighted the bulge with pencil, and then used a ultra-fine grit paper to remove the pencil.

   Now, I know that .003 isn't enough deviation to cause burning, but since my saw kit doesn't know that, it stopped burning the maple (given reasonable technique).  Probably placebo effect, but I'm happier.