Replies

1. 
   Buster2000 | Oct 27, 2005 01:33am | #1

   What question?

   I think your last paragraph should read:

   'I've made the same statment over at breaktime to explain my perspective also.'

   Honestly if you think it's for you we are not going to convince you any different.  If you are using it for rough work it will be more than adequate, for fine woodworking get maybe not.

   Craftsman doesn't get good reviews because of poor quality, or at least a track record of poor quality.  However it appears their quality has increased recently.

   Good luck with your purchase.

    

   buster

1. 
   madmadscientist | Oct 27, 2005 01:47am | #2

   Huh, Okay,

   I guess I was wondering what folks thoughts were on the subject.  I was wondering if anybody has seen it in the flesh/ actually used the thing or read a review on it. 

   I am still looking for a saw like this to attempt to do reasonably fine wood working on.  I do not have the space/budget for a real table saw so I am trying to find one of the 'comes on its own wheeled stand-stores vertically contractor grade saws' to use. There is a DeWalt and Rigid that got good reviews in FH recently but this saw might be more useful to me as I can use it as a router table also.

    Daniel Neuman

   Oakland CA

   Crazy Home Owner

1. 
   Buster2000 | Oct 27, 2005 02:01am | #4

   Oops...  A little harsh on my part.  Sorry.  Need my afternoon coffee...

   I think it really depends on what you plan to use it for.  I have a few craftsman tools that I use arpund the house, and they have served me well for the last couple of years.  That said I still have reservations about the quality of the tools.

   Some features are not really features if they are done poorly.  So asking around is a good idea.

1. 
   madmadscientist | Oct 27, 2005 02:18am | #6

   Some features are not really features if they are done poorly.  So asking around is a good idea.

   Thats what I was thinking exactly.  Since I will be using this saw to attempt to do 'fine wood working' and regular construction type stuff I though it was a good idea to get both points of view. Y'all FW have very different points of view than the FH folks......

   Searched on the web but didn't find any reviews of the new saw. A couple reviews on an older version that looks less fancy were mixed. Guess I got to find one in a store somewhere and smack it around a bit and see what falls off.

    

    Daniel Neuman

   Oakland CA

   Crazy Home Owner

2. 
   crpntr5 | Oct 27, 2005 05:30am | #8

   Re: Sears table saw... keep in mind what the fence will do or not do for you. I used to have a Delta contractor table saw(good beginer saw). The fence annoyed me to no end once I improved my skill set in woodworking.  You will really really appreciate what a quality fence will do for you. Any table saw will cut adequately but will the fence turn out to be a bumer. This advice I got from an old woodworker himself. Son you can have a so so table saw but if the fence is a dam good one you're off to the races. GO with the dewalt, I've seen it in action on job sites and with the stand it's the way to go hands down...

    

   Gil Cote

   Victoria Canada

2. 
   Planetbob | Oct 27, 2005 01:55am | #3

   I have the answer!   Get yourself a boat  (can be sail or power,  doesn't matter) and you can take the offending drill press out to the mooring field and drop 'er in the drink.   You may wish to have a little fanfare,  just to make it official.    There's probably a few verses that you can recitle to Neptune or something like that.  Then your drill press will actually perform a function each and every time you tie up your boat to it.   It should last for years.

   And just think,   if it's out in salt water,  you might even be creating a nice little habitat for a future coral reef or some other such evironmentally uplifting thing.....of course,  that might only be an example of the "mental" in environmental.

   Your mileage may vary.

   Good luck.

   Bob.

1. 
   madmadscientist | Oct 27, 2005 02:14am | #5

   WHA!?!?!

   Umm, did everybody on knots miss their coffee this morning?  Really though what the heck are you talking about?? Drill Press??? Maybe lay off the crack pipe??

    Daniel Neuman

   Oakland CA

   Crazy Home Owner

3. 
   Knotscott | Oct 27, 2005 03:59am | #7

   " It seems like folks here are pretty much universally down on craftsman table saws. "

   I'll disagree with that statement. Craftsman puts their names on alot of tools and retails them...they don't make any of them. That said, you really need to evaluate each tool on it's merits and compare it to other similar tools in the price range. They've got some great ones, and some stinkers, and even that list evolves and fluctuates over the years, so it's best to investigate them. The Orion made hybrid/cabinet saws get raves by owners and mags alike, including several owners here...yours truly included. A few years ago, I wouldn't have given you a plug nickel for a Craftsman contractor saw. Sears also has a Bosch made router that's a real gem. However my Ryobi made Craftsman miter saw is junk, and so is the little $150 saw on legs...so basically I don't see anything universal about the name other than it's sold at Sears. Their range of product, intended market, and quality level is pretty broad.

   The saw you're looking at appears to be a very close cousin to the Ryobi BT-3100, but on wheels with a few extra features like the router table and SMT. It's likely that it's made by Ryobi. If you like those features, and the saw fits your needs, it might make a good tool for you. The BT-3100's take some time and tweaking to get them setup correctly and maintained that way, but are capable of good woodworking.

   I personally would rather see a stripped down contractor saw for the same $400, but they're larger and don't come with the extras. The plus is added mass and table surface area, reliability, noise level, power, and longterm service. Just my 2 cents.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 10/26/2005 9:21 pm ET by scotty

4. 
   BG | Oct 27, 2005 02:28pm | #9

   Mad,
   Many of us bought a similar machine to start the woodworking hobby...many of us replaced those saws rather quickly. You have two big issues to deal with: Can you work safely?, Will it produce quality cuts?
   Its table top size limits the dimension of the stock that can be cut safely...you've got about 6" of table before the blade, not much support for crosscuts. Likewise, on a rip cut you've got little space to square your stock to before your in the blade.
   Qualtiy is impacted by vibration as well as the saw holding its settings. All those saws have high vibration.
   You'd be better off to buy a nice bandsaw...and make a workbench...

5. 
   JohnWW | Oct 27, 2005 05:03pm | #10

   Except for the stand, the crank handle, and the paint job, this is the same saw as the Ryobi BT-3100 which is sold by Home Depot, you could see one there.

   These are unique saws, not for everyone, they're more like a sports car than a pick up truck, but properly set up and not overloaded, they are an excellent saw for both utility work and precision furniture work.  The sliding miter table and the ability to move the fence bars to make extra wide rips are unique to a saw of this size and price.  I own one now and also owned the previous model, the only thing I didn't like about them is that they are very loud, you have to wear hearing protectors while they are running.

   These are the only saws that I know of that have a web site for their fans, bt3central.com, and Ryobi, on their corporate site, has a bulletin board that is also devoted to them, both are excellent sources of information.

   John W.

1. 
   WillGeorge | Oct 28, 2005 06:05am | #12

   Some time ago I had a Ryobi BT-something.. Everybody said it was crap.. Hell, I used it to side two BIG houses.. Some cedar boards were 20 foot long..IT WAS A WONDERFUL saw! In fact as I recall I used the same blade for both houses! Ya, junk but it always did the work..
   I'm not talkin' oak here so may be different.. Inside trim was white oak and sometimes as long but not as thick...EDIT:: I had a helper to hold the boards.. All siding was done vertical 12 inch wide..

   Edited 10/27/2005 11:08 pm by WillGeorge

6. 
   Dave | Oct 27, 2005 06:44pm | #11

   Aw shuckis Mad....you know, you could buy Grizzley, Craftsman, Powermatic, or whatever....somebody will have a problem with it.  Personally, I don't like any craftsman lawnmower, but the tools?  I've never had a problem.  I have a sears digital radial arm saw.  Lots of folks think I'm looney to even have a radial saw, let alone craftsman.  But I've had it 10 years, lined it up good the first time, and haven't had to touch it since. 

   You want portable, space saving, reasonable quality.....most important think you can do after you buy it is just throw the blade that comes with it away, and buy a couple reasonable quality (Like Frued or something comparable) saw blades for crosscutting and ripping (don't go for the combination blades....you compromise on both) and you should be just fine.  Like someone said...it ain't rocket science....it's a motor spinning a steel bladel for goodness sakes.  A real craftsman can make beautiful furniture with it....no matter what.

   Good luck!

7. 
   bobtexas | Oct 28, 2005 06:52pm | #13

   I'm not down on Craftsman!!!  That old girl is all I got.  A 10" contractor saw and a whole 2.7 hp.  A fence that ain't pretty and she's got those t-slot grooves.  But she helps me as best she can.  I am including a photo of what she helped me build.

   Some of you guys forget that    IT AIN'T THE TOOL .... ITS THE CRAFTSMAN USING IT.

   Some of you guys are like golfers who keep trying to buy a swing.  Rushing to every new toy on the market.  How did Chippendale build back in 1710 AD?  He'd have killed for a Craftsman table saw.

   Bob

   
1. 
   madmadscientist | Oct 29, 2005 12:10am | #14

   Okay everybody. Got a chance to swing by my local Sears and Home Depots yesterday to check out the saws. Man, my Sears is low budget. I didn't see the saw out on the floor so I asked the tool manager about it. He said that they only had two in stock and that he was not going to put the saw out on display. I said, well how are folks going to check it out? He said that he would bring it up and I could look at the box!?!?! Gee thanks...that'll tell me a lot....
   I went over to HD next and man that place is so ghetto also. All the table saws they had were crammed together along one isle. They were all half put together and missing pieces and loose and geez what's the point really. They did have the Ryobi clone and the Rigid TS so I could at least check them both out. No dewalt or Bosch though.
   The Ryobi saw was well...kinda cheap looking and feeling (but not as cheap as the crappy $99 TS). The fence was a step up in quality from the crappy $99 Skil TS that I had borrowed in the past but not at the level of the Rigids. I like the built-in cross cut sled-miter gauge thing (as an idea) but it also didn't feel like a quality piece. After playing with both the Rigid saw just felt better-higher quality with a much nicer fence. I know that some of you have produced good work with the Ryobi but for me I think I'm going to pass it up and get one of the higher grade portable contractor saws.
   Thanks for all the replies-opinions.Daniel Neuman

   Oakland CA

   Crazy Home Owner