Last evening I took my bow saw and cross cut a 10 inch length from the end of a hard maple plank four inches across and 2 inches thick.
The plank already had a circular saw cut half way across the board which was there when I purchased the plank. I thought that I could use the edge of the power saw cut to guide my bow saw as I finished the cut and did not bother to scribe a line.
As you may surmise, my finished cut is not exactly an extension of the original circular saw cut and could better be described as a “nomadic cut”.
Hmm…
The accuracy of this cut is not critical at this point since it is only a rough length cut, but this leads me to my question.
How much practice on scrap boards did it take you before you learned to control your hand saw well enough to cut a straight line?
My experience is with power tools, but now that I am trying to learn to use hand tools, I think that sawing to a line will be a major hurdle for me. Just so you know, I purchased the bow saw after reading Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking and have precious little quality time using it.
Perhaps an even more important question: Did you learn to use a hand saw by yourself, or did someone teach you, that is, your father or other teacher at your side?
Monte (trying to learn without the benefit of a teacher at his side)
Replies
FWIW, having a cut not follow a line can have all sorts of causes, from standing wrong, holding the saw wrong or poor set on the teeth, etc. This is especially true with a bow saw, where the blade can flex more.
When I teach others to saw to a line, I tell them to skip drawing a line at first, and simply practice making square & plumb cuts on a board in a vice. ("You don't need to mark square -- you know square." Frank Klaus.) After making a few cuts, check your accuracy with a square. Adjust your grip, stance, etc until you can cut a straight, square, plumb cut by eye. Assuming a good saw, you can usually get the hang of this without wasting too much lumber. ;-)
Once you can cut a straight and square cut, then start over, now cutting to a line. You've then already figured out how to work the saw so it cuts straight, so it's simply a matter of adjusting your efforts to hit the line.
Hope that helps.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
I learned by using a saw everyday for work. The bow saw Tage uses isn't the easiest type of saw to learn. It has a lot of weight over a thin blade and a limited depth of cut. To follow a line in a crosscut, lay the saw back towards you, rather than holding it straight up and down. It will track much better. You don't want to force the saw or try to cut fast. It's important that you move it back and forth in a straight motion. I pull right into my arm pit. Putting yourself in a good body position, having the lumber in a good position and secured makes a big difference.
Hand saws of all kinds are very sensitive to teeth sharpness and condition. Bumping up against metal in the tool box, hitting something hard or grit on the lumber can quickly dull the blade. If one side gets dull more than the other, the saw will run to the right or left. Folks treat their hands saws very carefully. To get to know saws, you need to spend some effort looking at the teeth. Learning how they are shaped, knowing what to look for when they get dull, seeing if they are equally balanced on each side. They are fun when they cut well but frustrating when dull.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Teacher? Yourself..
Sawing is PRACTICE and a reasonable saw. My opinion only.
Like cutting a nice dovetail.. If you cannot cut a straight line forget it! And then you have the problem of each saw may cut a 'bit' differently.. Such is life in woodworking heaven...
EDIT: I think the key is holding your saw the same way EVERY time..
Edited 10/23/2007 9:03 pm by WillGeorge
Start by sharpening your pencil like a blade, then mark a very thin line.
Saw to one side of the line, so the kerf is just touching the line.
If the kerf starts to wander from the line, don't just keep cutting while trying to bent the line back over. Rather back up to where the kerf was right, then apply enough pressure to the saw to just trim the kerf back to the edge of the line, then keep going while keeping a keen eye on the kerf.
I agree with the other posts. A few things-
A bow saw is, as has been noted, a tough saw to begin on. It does cut rapidly and well in skilled hands, but magnifies inexperience.
I would suggest that you get a good tenon saw- a back saw cut for cross cutting. Unfortunately, cheap hand saws, like cheap hand planes, are pretty worthless.
You can buy a good tenon saw new for ~$125 from LN, Adria or Mike Wentz. These have all been favorably reviewed multiple times.
Or, you can do what I did and buy a pre-WWII Disston tenon saw in good condition and have it professionally sharpened. I paid about $25 for the saw, and ~$15 or so for the sharpening. You can resharpen it yourself as needed, but for the first time, I'd make sure the teeth are recut, sharpened and set properly.
Now you have a good saw that is easy and precise to handle. Mark some scrap with multiple parallel lines and start cutting. Watch your posture, hold the saw properly with your index finger extended through the handle pointing along the saw blade and practice. Adjust your stance and position until you develop a posture that works for you.
Each time you come back to sawing, assume that same stance and make a few practice cuts in scrap before teeing off on hard wood. Good luck,
Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Just a quick story on this topic:
A friend of mine with some 30 yrs experience in ww-ing (with power tools) wanted to try his hand with a backsaw. He tried for weeks to cut a straight line, but just couldn't. He asked me if he could come over to my shop for a few pointers. "Sure", sez I, "and I could use a short piece of mahogany, if you have any laying around." ;-)
He did, and showed up with a piece of mahogany for me, along with his (decent) backsaw. I got him started cutting perpendicular cuts without a line, per my prior post. The cuts wandered and the saw kept binding. I grabbed his shoulders, gave a 15 degree clockwise twist and scootched him 3" to the left. In 10 minutes, he was cutting straight lines, no binding. His whole problem was that his stance was not allowing his arm to "piston" (for lack of a better term) along the line of the cut -- too much arm bending made a straight cut almost impossible.
I then handed him a L-N dovetail saw to compare with his. He gave it a try and he was able to do even better. He went home and ordered one of his own and, I'm afraid, has proceeded even farther down the slippery slope of hand tools.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Thank you all for the (free) education :)
It sounds like I need a decent western style back saw, since the bow saw is not the easiest saw on which to learn.
I appreciate the pointers on stance, angle of the blade to the surface of the board, and practicing again and again. I suppose I should think of it like learning to play the piano...which I did learn when I was young...but I had a teacher at my side :)
Mike, thanks for the story. It helped me to visualize.
One further question: Do you keep your dominant eye right over your saw / cut line, or do you move your head slightly to the left of your cut line so that you can see the teeth of the saw meeting the line?
Monte (realizing that this hand tool slippery slope is not inexpensive)
Monte,
Along with all the other good advice you've received, I'd submit that a two inch thick piece of maple is not the easiest stock on which to get a start on your hand sawing career!
Someone once said that any wood turner is only about five bucks away from significantly improving his (or her!) skills; just purchase a couple of 8 foot 2x4's and turn them (literally) into scrap, practicing the basic cuts over and over again. In your case, I'd suggest buying some inexpensive 1x pine and making cut after cut. After a few you'll develop the rhythm and the idea of how to correct a cut heading awry. It's a good way to "teach" yourself - without a teacher - how to cut with that bowsaw, and it won't cost much. Then, when you move on to thicker and more expensive stuff, you can take the lessons you learned to that material..
Zolton * Some people say I have a problem because I drink hydraulic brake fluid. But I can stop any time I want.
I don't remember where this trick came from but I have found it very useful. I look at the reflection of the edge of the piece in the saw and make sure the reflection is a straight continuation of the edge. Then I know the saw is at right angles to the edge and vertical. It has helped me a lot in finding the right stance and hand position while I saw.
MonteB,
I'm a self taught also (lousy teacher) and have recently learned that visual learning is much more effective for me than other methods. Chris Schwartz of Popular Woodworking had some wonderful videos on either http://www.thewoodworkingchannel.com or his home page for cross sawing and other techniques. He stresses body position and movement as others here have mentioned.I think learning the piano is much harder. It's more like learning to shoot pool...form firstEdited 10/24/2007 5:25 pm ET by BG
Edited 10/24/2007 5:30 pm ET by BG
Hi Monte
"I are a teecher"
Try this:
Stand side on to the job so that the arm is able to swing naturally along the cut direction. A line drawn between your feet will probably make an angle of 10 degrees to the cut direction or so.
The index finger is not curled through the saw handle, but sits on the side of the handle and points where the blade is going.
The other fingers curl around the handle.
There are five things in a plane (of the mathematical variety) when you're sawing:
(1) the dominant eye (Probably the right one)
(2) the shoulder
(3) the elbow
(4) the hand
(5) the tip of the saw.
Don't try and force the saw, remember that the saw cuts by scratching the surface. Gentle force and easy does it.
This may help.
Cheers,
eddie
Edited 10/25/2007 4:10 pm by eddiefromAustralia
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