We were talking about this in Fine Homebuilding, and thought this might actually be a better forum for the topic.
Here is the situation: I have several old-growth white oak logs that were taken down about a year ago because they posed a threat to some buildings. They are NOT rotten, and are between 36 and 40 inches or so at the base. We have a mill lined up with a good bandsaw, and a friend with a UniMog who will load and haul the logs and pay part of the mill fee in exchange for a share of the wood.
We will keep most of the wood but were considering selling some to help cover costs.
So, there are the questions:
A) for value, yield, and figure are we better off to quartersaw the wood of rift saw it (or some blend of each);
B) We will get a good many finished boards that are 12 to 18 inches wide — and are considering cutting at 5/4 for a finished true thickness of 4/4. Does this make sense?
C) In quartersawing, you cut from a wedge, so some of the boards are going to be narrow. We were considering cutting those at 6/4 to 8/4 or thicker — so whaddya ya think?
D) Is there a decent market for q-sawn white oak, and if so, at what prices? It has been pointed out that big quantity buyers don’t pay much, but I see pretty high prices on small craftsman lots.
E) Do finished q-sawn boards 12 to 18 inches and wider command any kind of premium? What about plainsawn boards up to 30″ (if they don’t warp into skateboard ramps)
Joe
Replies
I see I posted this in the wrong spot. meant it for general discussion. Not sure how to move it. Sorry.
Joe
Joe, drop a note to [email protected] and ask them if they'll move it for you.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I'm a little confused - are you going to dry this and use it for your own woodworking or is it your intention to sell it and try to make a little scratch?
I am going to have it planed and kiln-dried. Plan to keep most of it, but am considering selling some to help cover the costs of getting it milled.
So I am trying to figure how to get the most out of the wood.
Joe
If your intent is "to make a little scratch" as Boss so aptly put it, it might help if we knew where you were - geographically that is.
Regard it as just as desirable to build a chicken house as to build a cathedral.
Frank Lloyd Wright
Here are my observations from using a lot of qrt sawn wht. oak:
Long boards have extra value, but wide boards (over a foot) are seldom used because the fleck patter usually disappears across that much width.
In the Chicago area, this wood is about $5.00 bf., surfaced two sides. One larger wood source here charges a premium for heavily figured wood, as you might expect.
The dimensioning of your cuts seems to be very good. There is always a need for stock for legs, etc.
How will you dry this wood? Air drying of white oak takes forever.
Where are you? I would be interested in some wood.
Thanks for all the replies. The wood will go to the mill this fall. It will be finished on two sides, and will be kiln-dried. It is, BTW, true White Oak, Quercus Alba, and not one of the related trees that the trade likes to generically call White Oak.
I am all too familiar with the time it takes to air-dry the white oak family, as I had some Burr Oak sawed in Minnesota and waited 3 years to be able to use it. That's why this stuff goes to the kiln.
It is located in west central Illinois on my parent's property, and it will be stored in one of their out-buildings. however, I will be bring some quantity of it to North Texas in the spring, and my friend with the UniMog will be taking some to the Washington DC area.
Does anyone know if there is interesting figure in oak stumps and roots?
Joe
BTW, How long is "long?" We were thinking of cutting at 10', but could go 12' or longer. The logs get pretty heavy and hard to handle at a certain point. Think of the weight of a 36" wide 12' long oak log at 40 to 50 lbs per cubic foot.
Joe
Hope everyone can find this thread now that it has been moved...
Joe, First thing, I hope you have coated the ends of these logs. If not you are going to need to cut some of the ends off to get away from end-checks that are already there. Next, If you wait for very long, you are going to loose all of the sapwood to bugs and decay, although the heart-wood should be ok.Scott Brandbury has a good website that shows a couple of ways to QS. Here is a link. http://www.scottbanbury.com/
Long enough to make the major horizontal pieces of the prairie settle style of sofa. or possibly for use in trim work for Arts & Crafts interiors, where 10-12 foot pieces would be great for base moldings. Personally 8-10 footers are what I buy.
I think its a good idea to avoid competing with the mill. You're smart to think along those lines.
Also, I 've seen a lot of guys who think they are going to get "free wood" only to mill their logs into stock they don't need, wouldn't buy, and can't sell.
So QS lumber is a good idea as is super wide pieces. Of course, white oak isn't much of a furniture wood. If that was walnut or cherry, you'd be better off. But (just brainstorming) how about super thick? Workbench legs of airdried white oak 4x4's and 6x6's. Or workbench tops? One big slab, 20" wide, 4" thick? How about riven material for windsor chair makers? I don't know if it would be cost effective of not, but an ad in a ww magazine or even an online ad might do the trick.
I guess I could summarize by saying I think you should make something unique, and target a specific market. Mantle pieces? Free form flitches for Nakashima knock-offs?
Good luck
Adam
"Of course, white oak isn't much of a furniture wood."
I think Gustav Stickley would have a slight quibble with that statement.
Boss, I assumed Adam's comment contained just the tiniest hint of irony. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Well, I hope you're right. I will be disappointed if you're not.
Sorry guys, no irony this time. I do try to think about what I write, even though it doesn't always look that way! In this case,, Gustav Stickley is dead and aside from him, I don't think there's a huge market for super wide white oak, QS or otherwise. If we were talking about super wide or flitch sawn Black Cherry, Black Walnut or Mahogany, what I think of as principle furniture woods, then I would say some guy in the middle of the country could sell whatever he had, possibly over the internet. Those are highly desirable woods. Of course folks are buying regular width and narrow QS white oak for mission style furniture. That's very popular. But our friend would have to compete with mills throughout the US. Let's face it, there's no shortage of white oak in over 3/4 of North America. I can't recommend that approach to him as a good business strategy.So I think this is what he should think about (thus my post) - making something desired and something uncompetitve/rare. The worst thing he could do is make narrow random widths of flat sawn 4/4 stock. That's material his heirs will be wholesaling after he's gone.So not so much irony as hyperbole. I don't really think white oak isn't valuable for any furniture. I would say that its probably not as sought after as flitches, super wides etc as other woods. My guess is that demand for white oak is largely met locally. I've mail ordered lumber before, but never lumber I could buy locally. Like many woodworkers, I much prefer to inspect material before I purchase it. So I'm reluctant to mail order anything I can buy locally, even if the material is greatly discounted. In the same way we can get actual prices for old tools on ebay, you can get a clue about the lumber trade by poking around woodfinder.com.I think the OP (and others - this question comes up quite often) would benefit from your opinions as a mini market poll. Is there anything he could do to get you as a customer? Would you buy KD or AD QS white oak in any widths from a guy with a portable bandsaw mill in Chicago? And more generally, what advice could you offer someone who wants to saw their own and sell some? My advice would be to try to fill some niche market, be it musical instrument makers, or guys making nakashima stuff, flat sawn veneers etc.sorrry for the long boring post- blah blah blah.Adam
I must say, the suggestions are far more interesting than I expected. I really appreciate the time and thought you fellows have put nto the responses, and i am taking them all seriously as given by skilled and knowledgable people. Of course, I am not looking to make a living from this. If I sell any at all, it will just be to reduce my cost in what I keep. I am not rich, by a long shot, so cheaper is better. We will have what for us is rather a lot -- I now am estimating we will end up with over 3,000 bd ft. No question that walnut and cherry are more sought after for furniture for a variety of reasons. We have plenty of that, too, but none NEEDS to come down and we won't cut anything that is not dying or dangereous to a structure.As to the un-desirability of oak for furniture, I must disagree. It is a matter of fashion. For hundreds of years, oak was used for tables, chairs, linen folds, bookcases, study carrols, and practically anything else you can name. It was not all craftsman or mission style, obviously. In fact, my own dining room suite is very beaux artes, and is solid q-sawn oak. It belonged to my wife's grandmother and dates from the 19th century. Here in my office I have a 19th century q-sawn oak cabinet with curved glass sides and doors that was once held china but now holds books and such. The Jacobean table my computer is sitting on is oak. Those of you in Chicago -- go to the University Club at 76 Monroe and look around. Most of it is paneled in oak, with oak cases, shelves, phone booths, benches, box beams, and in the library, book shelves and so on and so on. Even such of the gothic windowcasings that are not limestone are mostly oak. Some of that is not furniture, of course, but much is.Cheers!J
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