i just received an email yesterday from SawStop- the company that has been developing the safer tablesaw with the automatic blade arrestor when it contacts meat (intended for human flesh but tested and demonstrated on hotdogs). they’re now claiming that the new saws will be shipping later this summer.
first a bit of history- when this technology came on the scene a few years ago its inventor was desperately trying to get US mfrs of saws to license his intellectual property (at what was rumored to be $$$$). for various reasons, but most likely due to retooling expense and potential liability issues, they all declined. he then attempted to have the federal government mandate this technology- reports vary as to how coercive these efforts were- but so far he has been unsuccessful. he finally decided/realized that if his dream was ever going to see the light of day, he was going to have to go into the tablesaw business himself. the reality check continues unabated.
throughout the brief history of this invention it has been widely reported/repeated that “it would only add $100-$150 to the cost of the typical cabinet saw” (as an inventor with several patents to my name, a pile more in development and about a dozen years of hands-on manufacturing experience, i was always extremely skeptical of this claim). well, the real numbers are in (or what’s real for the moment):
a new SawStop cabinet model with a 3hp-1ph motor AND NO FENCE, is $2,199 plus shipping. the company’s response to my inquiry- “You are correct that the base model cabinet saw comes without any fence. Many users have told us that they have an existing fence that they want to use and so we offer the base model without any fence. ” how many folks out there are really sitting on a spare fence that they wouldn’t be selling with their old saw? or does this sound like a transparent way to advertise a lower ‘base sticker price’? (www.sawstop.com)
for comparison, a Powermatic 66 with a 5hp-1ph and a 50″ Accufence is $2,199- plus is available thru amazon/tool crib with free shipping. (a Delta Unisaw is $1,799 w/ 3hp, $2,049 w/ 5hp.)
to get closer to apples to apples- an optional 5hp-1ph motor from SawStop is an extra $200 and a 52″ fence (looks like a Biesemeyer clone in the pictures but can’t really tell) is a whopping $350. figure at least $150-$200 shipping for something that big and heavy and we’re talking in the neighborhood of $2,900-$3,000. or slightly more than the previously touted additional $100-$150 figure.
to be fair, they are claiming some improvements such as a better riving knife/kickback pawls, a bigger table and heavier arbor (anybody ever complain about the sturdiness of a P66 arbor?) but definitely nothing radical like a sliding table or overarm blade guard/dust collection. no word yet on accuracy, cut quality, operation, etc.
comments, anyone?
m
Replies
This reminds me of the story about IBM or the Department of Defense or somebody doing a market study on computers right after WWII and concluding that the entire world demand for computers was six units. The thing is, for the computer they wanted to build at the price point they thought they could hit, they were right. Six units was all the market could absorb.
It sounds like the market for this saw is the few guys who amputated body parts on a table saw, saw the light and started doing all the right safety things and amputated more body parts despite their precautions, but who still don't want to quit using a table saw. There may be more than six of them in the US, but I doubt if there are 6,000.
When did the patent issue? I think I can wait till it expires.
I can understand the manufacturers' liability concerns, but if this thing works as advertised, and if they could have had it for $150 per unit, it won't take many multiple digital amputees crying in court about the manufacturers neglecting a known safety feature to turn the liability question 180 degrees around.
Hi Mitch,
I got the SawStop message also. I have an old Powermatic 63 that has been a faithfull workhorse for a long time. I was very happy with it, and still am, for that matter, but about 3 months ago I had my first (and hopefully last!) saw related accident. I took 9 stitches to the thumb, but it is still on my hand and working properly, so I count myself lucky. I then remembered hearing about SawStop here and looked them up. I liked what they had to say and put in a provisional order. As a hobbyist, I am looking more at the contractor saw, which is much cheaper than the cabinet saw - base price $699. The saw tables are the same size, and the big draw for me is that they have changed the design to include the european style riving knife. The stopping cartridge now contains all the electronic and software needed to stop the blade in case of an accident, so that the entire technology package can be upgraded by putting in a new cartridge. I don't ever plan to need the stopping mechanism, but then, I never planned on getting cut in the first place, so I figure it is a good safety device to have. Sort of like wearing a seatbelt - you don't plan to need it, but you are glad to have it when things go wrong. I know that safety starts between your ears, but spinning blades are inherently dangerous, and if it only takes a few dollars to prevent a stupid mistake from becoming a medical disaster, I would consider that money well spent.
Loach
Friend,
It's a good idea, but obviously there are practical limitations to it, otherwise the promoters/inventors would not limit the demo to using winnies.
However, if such system does in effect stop a rotating blade in 5 milliseconds, and only costs $100 to $150, it would STILL be very attractive, specially if it is also used in connection with stopping the balde that soon when the POWER SWITCH is turned off.
Just for that function alone, it'd be worth it, and if the system could be sold as a retrofit for ANY table saw, including radial arm saws, sure would be intersted in getting one.
Thanks for posting this.
-mbl-
it's definitely NOT a super duty version of a typical blade brake for every time you shut off the saw. this is an emergency stop in the event the system senses the electrical 'signature' of flesh. when it's triggered it rams an aluminum? shoe into the blade's teeth and simultaneously disconnects the blade from the arbor, shuts off the power and drops the blade quickly below the table surface. it's a very sophisticated, complicated system that, imho, has absolutely zero chance of ever being successfully, reliably retrofitted to any currently manufactured saw- at least in its full, complete form. the blade brake and power disconnect are possibly more doable, maybe the arbor release.
triggering the system will require a replacement brake and electronic package (about $60-70) and apparently it trashes the blade too.
i'll admit that i have issues with the concept and the company. my main problem is their reportedly heavy-handed attempt to force it on the industry thru the good offices of government. (the inventor is also an attorney) their attitude that the industry simply MUST adopt their technology is a tad too arrogant, self-serving and nannyistic(?) for my taste, in light of the millions of saws in use worldwide, cutting billions or trillions of board feet, mostly without incident.
another question i have, which i have put to them without receiving a terribly satisfactory answer, is the matter of reaction time vs. average incident speed. their videos and literature all show and/or describe staged 'accidents' with the hotdog during more or less normal feed speed- moving fairly smartly, to be sure, at about the rate a good saw would plow thru 1/2" stock. my general impression (not having any direct experience, thank heavens) has always been that the really bad cases resulting in amputations, etc, more typically involve some sort of faster, fumbled or slipped, more serious screwup than simply not minding where your thumb is while otherwise normally feeding wood into the saw. in other words, when something goes horribly wrong in a hurry and the hand is yanked into the blade spinning at 100+mph- not "whoops, my pinky was sticking out a little!" what happens to the hotdog if it's dropped from several feet above the blade (which is still not all that fast)? bottom line, it will undoubtedly save some injuries from being far worse, but are it's protective capabilities being oversold? what does the company do when its product reacts exactly as designed and somebody still loses a finger?
m
ps- if it really could do everything it purports to for $100-150, it'd be awesome, but so far the price ain't even close and the jury is still out.
Thanks Mitch.
If it's not really a brake-system, would not be interested.
For what it achieves, it'd be easier to retrofit an automotive air bag from a steering wheel, into the front of the t.s.
-mbl-
hmmm. so as soon as the sensor detects human contact the airbag deploys on the front of the saw and blasts you clear out of the danger zone? i like it!
m
Dear Mitch,
No, wouldn't patent what wouldn't use.
One reason being the consistent use of two ice-picks as push-sticks, plus being tossed back as, Dirt Stirrer says, who knows onto what might be there at the time.
But, if it's not pantented already, it would be allowed.
We've got to be practical, and that's well discussed in some earlier threads on the subject, which had not read before getting on this one.
But the air-bag surely has more applications than the in car-crashes. But all that come to mind, although practical, are kind of funny.
-mbl-
"But the air-bag surely has more applications than the in car-crashes."
MBL,
The most conspicuous use of airbags I can think of, other than automobiles, is as pundits and politicians!-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
Better patent that idea quick MBL. Only drawback I see is the injury sustained from whiplash, as long as you clear a blast zone behind the TS. Steve
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