Sawstop PCS with Infinity Dadonator
It seems SS says the Infinity Dadonator shouldn’t be used because the nearly-full-blade chippers are too heavy and can bend the arbor if the brake is triggered (voiding the warranty in the process). I may have missed any official announcement of this from SawStop, but I’ve only recently seen quotes in other forums from their customer service stating that. I’ve also seen quotes from Infinity saying they have a SawStop and use their Dadonator on it. “No problem!” Of course, if an Infinity customer bends their arbor and Sawstop refuses to replace it under warranty I don’t imagine Infinity will jump to their rescue. 🙂 So my question is, does anyone use one of the full chipper dado sets on their SawStop? And if so, do you risk bending the arbor by keeping the brake activated or go into by-pass mode? The kind of work I use dadoes for doesn’t include getting my hands anywhere near the blade, and dadoes are a small part of my table saw use. If they were a major part of my work I’d get another “approved” set.
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That certainly isn't a new recommendation - years ago I looked into various dado sets and avoided the full chipper set varieties because it would void the warranty on my SS. I am sure you could make 1/4" or 3/8" dadoes without problem but certainly making wide ones like 3/4" with their associated increase in mass, I would worry about it... Your choice, but to me, it doesn't seem like it is worth the potential damage to a multi thousand dollar saw!!
No damage if you bypass the brake, of course.
The inertia of extant design traditions, eh!?
The Sawstop could have gone down the design road of European style saws, with a sliding carriage build in (no more cross-cut sledges of MDF need ever be built) and a 30mm rather than a 20mm arbour. That they went for the 20mm arbour despite this being the source of problems like that described by the OP ...... .
I suppose they were thinking of all of the 20mm arbour blades folk already owned, despite Sawstop themselves offering blades of their own brand.
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I've recently been rereading a tranche of old FWW magazines (as you do) which were once replete with numerous adverts for proper saws such as Felder, Rojek, Hammer and others with built-in cross cut sliding tables and a 30mm arbour, as well as the long established riving knife and safer fence. But they never took off in the States, which seems mired even today in the unisaw design tradition. Even the revolutionary Sawstop got stuck with several of the unisaw design drawbacks.
Lataxe
The Euro style saws just don't sell here. That's the bottom line. Why they don't really doesn't matter. But Sawstop would have been out of business in a heartbeat if they had insisted on going that route. "But it's better, try it" is the rallying cry for supe4ior products like the Betamax.
I thought about a Euro saw, but would have needed to buy a new house to put it in. I barely have room for a Sawstop. Which is a fantastic saw, by the way. If I can't use one particular brand of dado blade, one of which I had never even seen, much less used, it's not even a minor inconvenience.
In my case I already own the Infinity dado set, I’m trying to save having to spend $200-350 on a new set. I’m leaning towards continue using what I have. I use a devoted dado sled for small cabinet dadoes and solid wood tenons, so my hands aren’t close to the blade, and for large cabinet dadoes my hands are also far from the blade. Just wondering if I’m not considering another reason I shouldn’t start using it those rare times I do in by-pass mode.
For SS users it's always a personal choice whether to bypass the safety feature in order to save money on a brake activation. That has to be weighed on an individual basis, I would make no judgment about it, other than cancelling to save money negates the reason for buying the machine. It needs to be thought through on a risk/benefit basis, not saving money on a potential break activation.
Eddo, you are probably justified with your scenario, in that case the factor is if you forget to go in bypass & do have a brake trip you risk a very expensive repair. I know you don't want to spend money for another set, but DeWalt @ $156 is both recommended by SS and gets decent reviews.
Stuff does happen. In plowing dados for a table saw sled, I ran through a screw by mistake once. If that was a SS and I forgot about bypass, it could be disastrous.
I have a big problem with SS on this. The Dadonator has both full blade chippers AND depth limiting shoulders, BOTH of which are unapproved by SawStop.
I also had the Dadonator before I bought the SawStop. Fortunately I also have a Dado King. I communicated my concern to Infinity and the email reply was what you got -- "we've been using it with no problems". I asked if they ever had a brake trip and got no reply. Unfortunately Infinity is ENTIRELY WRONG and IMO they should have some liability. Even though the user is ultimately responsible, since the answer that appears in their Q&A's violates SS recommendations.
I have purchased several Infinity products have have been pleased with them, but IMO this was a mark against them.
Good points. I hadn't thought of the possibility of a rogue screw or nail, just thinking of my fingers. As for the forgetting to go into by-pass mode, I've been using the SS for construction projects with PT lumber for a couple of years, and I've been very diligent about going into by-pass mode for that, so I've probably trained myself well enough for that part (but stuff happens!)
A screw or nail that you are not touching should not trigger the brake system, but a "chain" connecting you to the blade will. Think nail touching the table-touching the miter gauge-touching you-going through the cut.
I set mine off for the first time with a door I was making for a rabbit cage. It was a frame and panel door with a metal grate for the panel. I took it out of the clamps and was trimming the horns off the door when the brake triggered. The glue deeper inside the joint was still wet and I was touching the metal grate.
The “Dadonator” dado set is not recommended to be used with SawStop saws because of it’s weight. If you were to use this set, and have an activation, it has the potential to cause damage to the internal components of your saw. If you have any further questions please give us a call at 503-570-3200. We also have RMA# 75-81026 set up for you to give to the first available tech. that answers the phone.
https://www.rapidfs.org/
Yep, so we've all heard. By the way, can you tell me where in the manual or sales literature it says that?
https://www.sawstop.com/support/faqs
Click on "blades".
Thanks. So, not in the manual or sales literature.
You could probably sell your dadonator and get enough to pay for the DeWalt set. It's pretty good for the money.
I may, but I'd probably get the Ridge (or maybe the Forrest, but yikes, they're pricey!). I've used the Forrest WW blades for years and really like them. A few years ago I bought a Ridge blade. I think the quality is very good, so for $100 less than the Forrest I might go with that.
I can't find anything, outside of this thread, that mentions the extra mass of certain dado sets and bent arbors. If someone has a link to a Sawstop page with that info, I'd be glad to see it.
All of the info I can find concerns "anti-kick back/depth limiting blades" on dado sets. Most of the "approved" dado sets are of the two carbide teeth on a chipper design, and all do not have the anti-kick back/depth limiting nubs behind the carbide tips.
But the Forrest is approved, and has four-bladded chippers, but again, not the anti-kick back/depth limiting nubs. The Freud SD508 is not approved, looks to have the same mass as the Forrest, but it does have the anti-kick back/depth limiting nubs.
It seems like the style of blade is more important than the mass. After all, a Forrest set with all the chippers is going to weigh more than the Infinity set with only a couple of chippers.
See Comment #11 above from MJ. "Do not use dado sets with solid-plate interior chippers or blades with molding heads, as neither brake cartridge is designed to stop those blade types."
Right. But it's about the shape of the blade or dado set used, and the ability of the brake to stop it. It has nothing to do with mass.
"solid-plate" implies mass, mass means the brake can't stop it, because of its mass, and can damage the arbor.
Yes it does have to do with mass, plus depth limiting shoulders. Both are a no-no.
It’s not that the brake can’t stop it, it is because it can damage the arbor, the shoulders can delay stop time.
I wish someone would do a video on shoulders vs non-shoulders I would really like to see if there is enough difference to make some of us with quite a few blades unusable.
Looks like SawStop is offering a new compatible dado set:
"This Dado set features 24-tooth main blades, flat grind chippers with a variety of widths to provide maximum flexibility, and -5° hook for less tear out which means cleaner cuts overall.
Features:
- Reliable cutting with flat grind on chippers
- A variety of chipper widths included: 1/4”, 1/8” (2), 1/16”, and 3/2”
- SawStop compatible
- Premium specialized blade set suited for cutting hardwoods & softwoods"
Check out Sawstop.com in their "Add-Ons" section.
If their dado set is anything like the blade that came with my saw I'd pass.
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