Replies

1. 
   MarkRD | May 11, 2005 03:14pm | #1

   Fine series of pics but really short on the explanation...

   M.

   Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.

   View Image

1. 
   adastra | May 11, 2005 04:23pm | #4

   Yeah, the story is buried in this thread if you want to hear about how it happened.http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=20114Also the guy's incident with the 1/4" ply kind of threw me. I usually am feeling most safe with 1/4" as I didn't think it would have much chance to catch or have much energy if it did. Good reminder not to get overly relaxed with power tools, I usually think of myself as careful but am a little cavalier when handling 1/4".

1. 
   MarkRD | May 11, 2005 04:31pm | #5

   Thanks Adastra, found the story, "reprinted" here for others to read.
   MarkEarly this morning after switching out the safety brake for a dado brake on my SAWSTOP I began to setup for a few test cuts with a dado set.
   During these test cuts is when IT HAPPENED!http://www.huisinga.org/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album35&page=1Began running a small test board through and at the best of my recollection must have loosen my grip on the push pad which twisted the board and got bound up between the fence, it then ripped the push pad from my hand causing my forefinger to come in contact with the blade. Then BANG! I just stood there in shock looking where the board had ended up accross the shop and the push pad was all torn up.Wondering why did the saw stop and the blade disappear???
   Finally looking down at my finger noticed a slight nick!Wow this thing really works!Very Humble Sawstop Owner
   

   Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.

   View Image

2. 
   forestgirl | May 11, 2005 07:52pm | #6

   1/4" plywood can be deceptively agile.  I had my scariest close-call at the table saw with 1/4" ply, where it spun over the blade, leaving a big scrape on the underneath.  It can also creep under the fence if your fence doesn't sit close to the table all the way across.

   It's light and flexible so you need to be sure it's under control when you're cutting it!  I like to clamp a board to my fence that provides a channel at the bottom for the 1/4" ply to run in.  The bottom of the board holds the ply close to the table (but not too snug).

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

   Edited 5/11/2005 12:56 pm ET by forestgirl

2. 
   nikkiwood | May 11, 2005 04:10pm | #2

   So, what's your point?

   "I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
   -- Bertrand Russell

1. 
   adastra | May 11, 2005 04:17pm | #3

   I don't know, that it works? Like I said its just something I thought some might find interesting. The title of the post indicates the subject.I think images do more to demonstrate this device than anything. The thought of having a finger thrown into a dado and just coming out with a nick is really something to think about.

3. 
   DonC | May 11, 2005 09:38pm | #7

   I understand that the blade drops below the surface and imbeds the blade into the stop cartridge. Requiring a new blade and cartridge.But why does the blade need to stop. If the blade is below the table surface safety is achieved isn't it???

1. 
   MarkRD | May 11, 2005 09:51pm | #8

   The drop is not as fast as the cartridge that stops the blade. You can watch the videos at http://www.sawstop.com. Pretty cool.Mark

   Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.

   View Image

1. 
   DustyGeorge | May 12, 2005 09:29am | #9

   After watching the video, I believe the stop and drop are part of the same action.  The cartridge brake hits the blade's rim.  That point on the rim stops and the momentum of the blade then tries to spin the blade around the stopped point on the rim.  The brake is on the rear of the blade so the action pulls the blade down.  If the brake had hit the blade on the front the momentum would try to pull the blade up out of the cabinet.

   Interesting point:  The saw determines when to do an emergency stop by applying an electrical (RF) field to the blade.  A circuit senses when the blade contacts a conductor (human body or Oscar Mayer hot dog) and activates the brake cartridge.  Now consider a push stick.  Normally they are made of wood (a non-conductor).  When the blade hits it it saws right through it just like we expect it to.  However the Rockler aluminum push stick.  It would be an excellent conductor.  When it touches the blade - BLAM emergency shut down and it is going to cost someone about $200 to get the saw running again.

1. 
   MarkRD | May 12, 2005 02:22pm | #10

   Yes and the SS fence is non-metallic as well to prevent false positives as would the aluminum push stick - though as I understand it if you cut a nail or screw in the wood, it may not trip the SS if the metal is not touching any other part of the saw... (I'll have to check on this)...
   Mark

   Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.

   View Image

1. 
   DonC | May 12, 2005 07:10pm | #11

   I assume any conductor that touches therotating blade would have to be grounded. Probably a nail in a board being cut would not active the stop mechanism.

2. 
   dwright | May 13, 2005 02:09am | #12

   Correct.  A nail being cut by the blade would have to also be grounded to the operator or the cast iron table saw top for the blade brake to release.  I have nicked a few nails with my SawStop without the brake releasing.

   There are about 600 saws out there.  Power Tool Institute warnings about false tripping of the brake in various wood species and cutting scenarios turned out to be a bunch of political positioning.  6 saves have been recorded so far, and there is little to no buzz about false trips.

   Mine has happily cut plywood, MDF, Cherry, Mahogany, PT lumber, Makore, Douglas Fir, Maple, SYP, SPF, Amaranth, and nails without mishap or hassle.  The cutting has been done with ATB, ATB+R, TCG, and dado blades using the fence, a cast iron tenoning jig, and the OEM miter gauge with an aluminum extension.  The saw has been run without any guard, with the riving knife, and with the full guard.  Shop temperatures ranging from 30 degrees to 80.  Dust-filled cabinet and clean cabinet.  At this point it's just a tool to me, albeit a very nice one.

3. 
   MarkRD | May 13, 2005 02:39am | #13

   DW, Thanks.It's about time a SS owner showed up and posted here. How long have you had the saw. What did you end up paying for it. (I heard that you could get a cabinet saw at a show for $2100 - pretty competitive it seems).It appears that you like the saw. Assume the SS didn't have the brake, How would you compare it to the Delta, Powermatics, grizz, general etc. of the world?Naturally I love the product, but my budget can't get there (yet). (of course with all the free marketing SS gets from me, they should give me one for free ;-)Thanks,
   Mar

   Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.

   View Image

4. 
   dwright | May 13, 2005 05:02am | #14

   Mar,

   I've had the saw since early December.  Mine was one of the first production models shipped because 2 1/2 years earlier I happened upon the website within about  24 hours of them putting up the preorder page.  It was nonbinding so I figured "what the heck" and signed up.  Over the following couple of years I exchanged a number of e-mails with Steve Gass, couldn't find any technical holes in their implementation, got to kick the tires @ IWF Atlanta, and decided to follow through on my preorder.

   My saw had a few minor manufacturing issues because it was such an early release.  They were easily taken care of, and I understand that currently shipping saws are coming out with excellent QC and a couple features that mine does not have - like contact switches to prevent operation when the cabinet doors are open.

   I got mine for early preorder (pre-August 2004) pricing.  $2200 for the saw + $200 for the 36" fence.  SawStop features, mass, and precision for not much more than PM66 prices.  On the downside, I had to pay $430 for point-to-point delivery via Yellow Freight of the 4 heavy boxes all the way across the country.

   I can't offer comprehensive and credible comparison of the SawStop against the Uni/PM/General/Grizz saws because I had been using a Delta Contractors Saw for the previous dozen years.  I looked very closely at the competition when @ IWF Atlanta, though, and came away with the impression that the SawStop was more solid, better engineered, and higher quality construction.  A number of SawStop buyers have good experience with quality cabinet saws.  Their remarks are consistently positive, like Per Swenson commenting at SMC that spinning the adjustment wheels is like opening a bank vault.

   IMO the saw is a good value.  Part of the price goes to pay back their R&D, and they don't have anywhere near the sales volume of the big boys, but they also have very little overhead and very few middlemen.  You get what you pay for.  I know what you mean about the free advertising.  Being one of the few (comparatively) long term SawStop owners, and having a good grasp of its engineering, has resulted in me placing many posts about the saw.  I paid full price for it though, and would insist on same so that I can be free to post negative experiences as well as positive.

   Regards, Dave

   Edited 5/12/2005 10:20 pm ET by dwright

5. 
   MarkRD | May 13, 2005 01:56pm | #15

   Dave,
   Thanks for the follow-up. Glad you are happy with the saw. I'm saving my pennies. Let's hope my fingers survive long enough to take advantage of the technology.Best,
   Mark

   Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.

   View Image

6. 
   lwj2 | May 13, 2005 04:22pm | #16

   I'm in the same boat, Mark. One of these years, when the tax refund comes in, I'm getting one of them myself.I've never had (knock on wood) any problems with my Rockwell/Delta contractor's saw. But I'm attached to my fingers and plan to stay that way.Working in a radiology department, I see all too many folks that have become ... detached ... from theirs.What I can't figure is why local/state governments haven't lined up outside Saw Stop's door with purchase orders in hand, just from a liability standpoint.All it's going to take is one finger off and the knowledge that this piece of equipment was available and unpurchased to get one hell of a liability suit going, IMO.Ta,Leon Jester

4. 
   BarryO | May 14, 2005 09:54am | #17

   That link doesn't seem to work anymore.  "album35" doesn't exist.

1. 
   adastra | May 14, 2005 04:22pm | #18

   That was fast, the album went up just last week I think. Maybe he was burning up his bandwidth.I guess this is a dead thread. Anyone know how to delete entire threads? probably one for the administrator.

1. 
   forestgirl | May 14, 2005 07:24pm | #19

   "Maybe he was burning up his bandwidth."  He certainly used way more than he needed to for what he was trying to show (in terms of the pictures).  I guess he can't control how many people logged in though.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

   Edited 5/14/2005 12:25 pm ET by forestgirl

2. 
   AndyE | May 14, 2005 10:42pm | #20

   Barrycheck that thread again, I was just there a few minutes ago and it came up fine.good luckAndy"It seemed like a good idea at the time"