Replies

1. 
   JMartinsky | Apr 23, 2006 07:07pm | #1

   Hey Nine,
   I have a PM66, nice saw, but I LIKE the SAWSTOP. I liked them even more after I had my PM spit a cabinet door at me. My fault. Not costly in terms of body parts, but a bruised hip, ego, and wrecked cabinet door later, the Sawstop was looking VERY good. I think even the drill press winced when the door shot into it! Well, I have that door right across from my tablesaw, where I have to look at it, everytime I make a rip, with a sign that says..."In a hurry?" Like yourself, I work commercially, so I was in a rush (CLASSIC begining to an accident story), and that's where it got me. So I like your thinking. As a suggestion, Minimax makes a beautiful sliding saw as well as combo machines. I'm sure that Laguna does as well. For a small shop, it would seem like a nice setup. I like the sliding, tilting (Yikes) shaper on the combo. No Sawstop brake, but a LOT safer than a standard TS and there is no jury rig. Kinda "set it and forget it." Just a thought.

   Good Luck!

   John

1. 
   John_D | Apr 23, 2006 11:40pm | #2

   What is it about a SawStop that would have prevented that kickback?  If it's the riving knife, did you have a splitter with anti-kickback pawls and a guard installed on your PM?

   Not arguing, just curious what you did, and what aspect of the SawStop you feel is superior in this instance.  I shared my own tale of stupidity, even though I doubt anyone else here would have done the dumb move I did... :)My goal is for my work to outlast me.  Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.

1. 
   JMartinsky | Apr 24, 2006 01:44am | #3

   Dear John,
   I was trimming the top of a door, using the fence, but I had the door the "short " way, call it a cross cut. Door is maybe 15" x30", style & rail, raised panel, maple. I had the 15" against the fence. I was holding a piece of 5/4 Brazilian Cherry against the back edge of the door, with my thumbs, to prevent the blade from blowing out the back of the cut. Seemed like a good idea. (My best thinking got me here!) So just to review, 15" against the fence, 5/4 B. Cherry as a backer, thumbs on the cherry, fingertips on the door. The door actually made it through OK, the cherry pulled away from the door, that got tossed first, when the blade grabbed it, it cocked it before throwing it, which cocked the door as well. The blade grabbed the door next. I actually had the brief moment of the door grinding on the blade when I could of made a grab for it, but twenty years of disciplining myself NOT to grab for a piece like that payed off. The whole thing was over in less than two seconds. A Sawstop would not of prevented the accident, unless I left the riving knife on, but all things being equal, it would not of prevented the accident. What it may of prevented was amputation, if I HAD reached for the pieces. Perhaps next time my instincts will not be so good. I good slider WOULD of prevented it, no question. John

1. 
   tinkerer2 | Apr 24, 2006 02:23am | #5

   Thanks for the explanation of your accident.  It could save me and others from our own accident.  Just for info - Would a panel saw be good for that kind of work?

1. 
   JMartinsky | Apr 24, 2006 02:46am | #6

   Dear Tink,
   I am assuming that you mean a vertical panel saw. I suppose you could do it. Sure would be safer!John

2. 
   NumberNine | Apr 24, 2006 03:12am | #7

   yup, your scenario description is pretty much why I want a slider; the latest video on the Sawstop web site is hard for me to ignore too. 

3. 
   JMartinsky | Apr 24, 2006 02:25pm | #10

   Dear Nine,
   If I was in the position financially, I would sell off all of free standing equipment and get the MM 300S combo. That would be my first choice. My second choice would be a dedicated slider, again, I like the MM, but I'm sure that Grizzly prices out better. Third, and probably most realistic would be if I were building my shop again, I would forgo the PM66 in favor of the Sawstop. It is about 1K more than the PM, but considering what fingers cost, that would seem like money well spent. I think that it would be hard to explain to my wife or children how I or God forbid, someone else got their fingers cut off on my saw because I wanted to save a grand. So, I don't but a planer this year, big deal. When I'm teaching my boy how to cut, I don't have to worry so much. Someone pointed out that until the Sawstop, North American tool design is pretty much no different now than it was in the 1930's. Now one could argue that is a good thing, but let's face it, the Tablesaw is the mean one. Do a search on this forum for saw injuries, and I'm sure that the TS will lead the pack, and not just injuries, amputations. I am saving my nickels to replace the PM. I'm no holy roller here. I work without guards at times, I've been in construction since the middle 1980s and have done some dumb stuff and gotten away with most of it. I go shark fishing when I can as well, but we carry all the safety gear we can afford. They didn't have most of that gear 50 years ago, but we would be fools not to have it. So here's to being less foolish!John

2. 
   JMartinsky | Apr 24, 2006 01:46am | #4

   Just to further give myself up, no guards, or splitter, but I do use DC!John(Have been known to run with scissors as well)

1. 
   John_D | Apr 24, 2006 09:33am | #8

   Seems to me two things would have helped here.  If you'd secured the backer better (not grasped with thumbs), and if you'd had the splitter/pawls/guard installed.  Certainly if your hands HAD flown to the danger zone, the guard could have prevented/reduced any serious injury.  Also, probably good if the backer wasn't full-width (so it wouldn't tend to leverage against the fence).

   Do you think that combo would probably have let this cut go uneventfully?  To the point of another thread, would a crosscut sled have made this safer than using the rip fence?

   In any case, very very glad to know you weren't seriously hurt.My goal is for my work to outlast me.  Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.

1. 
   JMartinsky | Apr 24, 2006 02:10pm | #9

   John,
   All of the techniques that you describe would of helped, but the slider/combo in would of eliminated it. The combo that I have used is the Minimax CU300S. The slider is a very safe way of doing things, one the fence on the MM can be positioned in a crosscut, closest to the operator, two, you can clamp pieces in place to the slider, so my five year old can make the cut, once it is set up. So all in all, the combo is a much safer setup, in my humble opinion.JohnPS: Sorry, nine, if we're hijacking your thread

2. 
   JMartinsky | Apr 25, 2006 11:49pm | #11

   Dear Nine,
   I looked at the Jessem online and I have to say that looks pretty good. I just don't know if I could bring myself to cut the rails on my TS!

   Good Luck!

   John