SARGE,
Thanks for your very thorough writeups of the Steel City 18″ bandsaw. It appears that you really did your homework and I appreciate the information you’ve shared.
I have been debating between the SC 18 and the PBS-440. The 440 has an extra horsepower in the motor and heavier wheels, but it lacks the tension release lever, has the European style guides, and costs alot more. Also, I’ve never actually seen one.
I am looking for a saw capable of resawing bookmatched panels, but will not be using the saw in an 8 hour/day production environment. I’d also prefer to be able to use this saw with a small blade for cutting curves so that I don’t need two bandsaws.
In looking at the SC 18, it appears to me that if I apply pressure to the lower end of the guide post (at the upper blade guide position), in the direction of the feed, it does appear to move slightly. As you mentioned in one of your posts, this flexing surely does not come from the 3/4″ square bar bending. I am guessing that this apparent movement comes from the mechanism that holds the bar in place at its top. Perhaps I am imagining this or perhaps I am expecting too much for a moveable arm extended out 9″ or so to stay rigid when a force is applied at it’s lower end. Any thoughts? Am I making too much of this? With a good blade at a reasonable feed rate, I’m not sure how much force really is applied here.
I have not tried this test on any other saws so they may all do this, I’m not sure.
Also, as I mentioned, I’m interested in resawing wide panels, mainly oak, cherry, and walnut. How large a panel have you tried to resaw and how well did it work? Have you tried running heavy lumber or logs across the table?
The SC 18 does seem to be a well engineered saw, and seems to be rated well on the forums.
Thanks a lot for your help. I appreciate your input.
MoWWorker
Replies
In fact, I tested my 18, inch S. C. bandsaw for flexing of the guidebar under actual conditions
Test method:
>Ash, 7" resaw
>Used dial indicator in two positions. A. directly behind guidepost, and, B. to right side of guidepost
Results
>Total deflection; ZERO
Incidence of vibration from minus one thousanths to plus five thousandths
Conclusion
Sorry to use all these technical terms ,but, I don"t see a diddledy squat of a problem .......
Thanks, quack. I appreciate your input. Perhaps either I was pushing too hard or I was just imagining that I saw movement. An actual use test is always best. It sounds like you're happy with your saw.
MoWWorker
A test of a band saw by applting a load to the guidebar while in a static , untensioned condition, quite simply, is not indicative of anything. IT does not replicate any condition of actual use.
Incidentally, I also tried another test (of sorts) when I first set up the saw in November.
I just couldn't wait to see if it really would resaw better than my old (practally remanufactured) Reliant 18".
I Resawed a piece of seven and one half inch ash but really didn't pay particular attention to the guide bearings or thrust bearing settings or the fence. I tensioned the blade (a 3/4" highland hardware woodslicer) and ler her go... Holy wow, I cut through that thing in a few seconds. I checked the four corners with a quite sensitive thickness gauge. Total variation , about 10 thousandths. I'm sure if I were to set the thing up properly she would certinally do better than that.
Evening Mo...
Looks like Quack has got your question answered already with his test. I won't go so far as to say that a guide-bar can't have flex. Having been around muscle cars for a long time, I know that a steel wheel your tires are mounted on will flex to a certain degree (when you hit a large pot-hole for instance and you can't see it with a naked eye). I have not done the extensive test that Quack performed, but any flex that might be there unseen has not caused a problem for me personally.
I have re-sawed 10" white oak and ripped quite a bit of 4" stock of the same. The 10" re-saw was done co-incidentally with the same blade that Quack uses, a 3/4" Woodslicer from Highland Woodworking. I used to use their 1/2" as many have used, but I went to their newly offered 3/4" one. I used to use a Lennox 1/2" bi-metal for ripping, but left this blade on to see if I could get a dual use with one blade. The results are excellent in both. The jury is still out if the WS will dull quicker than the Lennox bi-metal which I expect it will. But.. so far so good!
It would be hard to add to what Quack has already stated with his test, but I will add that a BS is a finesse machine. Properly set up, tuned and with a well matched sharp blade, you do not exert great force while feeding stock to the machine. You let the machine-blade match-up dictate the feed rate as it will whisper the answer to you if you are dialed in and as one with the machine.
Cut speed on a BS is not the same as with a 5 HP TS with a 24 T flat tooth blade. It will literally eat 3" stock about as fast as you can feed it. The BS requires a degree of patience to allow the cutting process to proceed at the pace the BS is willing to accept. Look at the thickness of a BS blade and compare it to the thickness and stiffness of a TS blade 10' or 12" width. Remember also that that thin blade is well over 100" inches long.
For what you mentioned you would be doing, I think you are well matched with the SC 18". And their 20" is even beefier! As long as you don't need + 12" re-saw as a lot of turners require. I have not cut any logs as of yet, but can tell you if and when I do I will re-enforce the table under-neath on both sides. I would do the same thing with the PBS 440 or a Mini Max for that matter. If I had a 36" Tannewitz, I would just put it on a sled and shove it down it's throat without concern. ha.. ha...
BTW.. as much and as confident in the Woodslicer blade in both 1/2" and 3/4", it is not made to cut wet lumber as freshly felled logs and Highland clearly states that up front. The Lennox 1/2" or 3/4" would be my choice there. Carbide would probably be fine also, I just buy 4 blades for the same price and never have down time waiting while a blade is out being sharpened. Just my take on that issue.
Regards...
SARGE.. jt
Hey Sarge. If you're still looking for one of those 36" Tannewitz saws (lol) they have a bunch of them for auction on irsauctions.com right now (like 6). You can probably get one for less than a minimax... Just kidding. Wonder how much one of those weighs....hard to shoehorn it into the back of my Prius... Banter aside, just wanted to say how much I appreciated your review efforts. R
Morning Astro...
Thanks for the thanks.... I found a Tannewitz 36" in an on-line auction at a furniture builder that was shutting the doors in Arkansas last August I believe. It eventually sold for just over $1400 which was a steal. My first thoughts on ever seeing one face to face were: massive.. brute strength.. long haul.
I thought of bidding since I was in the market for a BS at that time. But reality over-ruled infatuation as I don't have the space in my shop nor the ability to move it if that became a necessity. Also the cost of getting it back to Atlanta would be as much as the saw originally sold for.
To take the wonder out of how much one weighs... I can't give a dead on figure but it is well over a ton or 2000 pounds. I wonder which HTC mobile kit is recommended for it? ha.. ha...
Regards...
SARGE.. jt
I bought 2 qty 36" Tannewitz band saws from Boeing Surplus last year & sold one to a friend. both have Reeves variable speed drives with feet per minute dials/gauges. they weigh a little over 2500 lbs & are just about 9ft tall,one is 7.5hp & one is 10hp both 20" resaw capacity.They sat for sale down at the surplus store for more than 2 months before I stepped up to buy when they were having a weekend holiday sale. the original asking prices were $1800 & $1000.It is interesting to note that they have hydralic brakes on the upper wheel that are actuated by timed relay that turns on a solinoid that pushes on a master cylinder that actuates a wheel cylinder to push on the brake shoes to stop the saw after you turn it off.simular to automotive(alot of stored energy exits in a 36" dia steel wheel when rotating). I am currentley building a new shop & have not fired mine up - but my friend has and its a very smooth saw, He uses his mostly to cut large pieces of aluminum & steel & some wood for foundry patterns that is why the variable speed is nice.both of us are just hobby users. I think I saw Boeing sold 4 or 5 of the large Tannewitz's last year - some auction some retail, last time I was down at the surplus I think they had a 24" wadkin & a 20" Rockell or Grob for sale.
Thanks Sarge. I appreciate the well thought-out replies that both you and Quack have provided. I think the SC 18 will be the saw for me and hope to purchase one in the next couple weeks.
BTW.. Have you ever used the slower speed setting on the SC 18? Is it correct to assume that the slower speed would provide higher torque for tall resawing, although at a slower feed rate?
Thanks again,
Mo
Evening Mo..
I read this earlier but couldn't reply as my wife was pushing me to go to dinner. Imagine that.. :>)
The slower speed doesn't relate to torque. The motor turns a given RPM and depending on size of both main drive pulley and transfer pulley, you attain the speed of blade travel. The slower speed is for metal cutting as on a drill press. You have to slow things down and keep metal lubricated or you invite problems.
A way to attain more torque on a BS is by going to direct drive to increase efficiency as on many commercial saws. You can add more horse at that point to maintain it and enhance it further.
Regards...
SARGE.. jt
I'm not sure I understand your bit on slower speed. Does the motor slow down, or is the slower speed attained by belt/gear reduction - other.
Evening Tink...
Motor rpm is constant.. The drive pulley (the one attached to motor) is a single groove so it is constant. Therefore the blade speed is slowed down by switching the belt to the larger diameter groove in the dual groove transfer pulley attached to the lower wheel.
I know it's kind of confusing but.. on one complete revolution of the main drive pulley attached to the motor, the smaller (higher speed) transfer pulley will make a more complete turn which will cause the BS wheel the blade rides on to travel farther in one motor revolution. When the belt is switched to the larger diameter (slower speed) transfer pulley groove attached to the wheel it reduces the distance the actual wheel and blade will travel on one complete motor revolution.
Regards...
SARGE.. jt
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