Hi all:
More and more of my work is involving curves and I’m realizing that I’m hampered by my lack skill/knowledge of how to make the shapes in my head come out in the wood. So far I’ve been cutting everything out of solid wood, but i would like to go to a school that will teach me how to bend, shape and veneer furniture of a more contemporary nature (see eg below). Can anybody recommend such a school?
Regards, Alison
Replies
Neat table. Before you go off and learn a bunch of new stuff, how did you form those legs?
Bobby
Bobby:
I made the table out of solid Koa that I cut using a scroll saw - at the time I didn't have a bandsaw, I went through about 500 blades cutting the darn thing.
The trouble is that the curves are structurally very weak. I don't like making "vunerable" furniture that if you look at it the wrong way it breaks. I like the piece alot, but still, it just seems technically wrong .
Alison,
Last semester I took an excellent semester-long course in bending and laminating at Palomar College in San Marcos, California (just north of San Diego). The course covered steam bending (chair legs, for example), glued-up laminates (chair rockers, for example), and water bath bending (oval Shaker-style boxes).
Comprehensive coverage of appropriate wood technology, bending forms, clamping strategies, suitable adhesives, wood species suitable for bending, resawing, etc. were covered. The instructor, Russ Filbeck, has a national reputation for his hand-made chairs. In his chair making classes he covers some of the specialized bending topics in greater detail.
If you're interested, the wedbsite is: http://www.Palomar.edu/woodworking
Long Beach, California stairbuilder Lon Schleining's book "The Complete Manual of Wood Bending" (Linden Publishing) covers the subject matter comprehensively.
Good luck,
-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
Wow, that just matches everyone of my needs, unfortunately I don't think I could bring myself to be away from my boys that long, they kinda go into survival mode and eat cold pizza and don't take too many showers etc when I"m not here ....
After going to the class did you come to find out that you needed a whole lot more equipment?
I'm wondering just how far you can bend wood...could you for example, bend a 10ft long, 8/4, 12" wide piece of walnut into an S curve? Or are we only talking plywood here
Alison
"After going to the class did you come to find out that you needed a whole lot more equipment?
I'm wondering just how far you can bend wood...could you for example, bend a 10ft long, 8/4, 12" wide piece of walnut into an S curve? Or are we only talking plywood here"
Alison,
You might want to look for someone who teaches a short course that involves working green wood. The instructor I mentioned, Russ Filbeck, will be offering his courses through "American Sycamore" in Indiana while he's on sabbatical, and I am sure there are others as well - perhaps Drew Langsner, Brian Boggs, John Alexander, or Mike Dunbar.
Another poster eschewed formalized woodworking education, saying, in effect, that schools make the process idiot-proof - a contention with which I disagree. What I learned was just enough to make me feel confident about using the processes I'd been taught, thoroughly curious about the myriad subject matter that such courses cannot cover in detail, and enough of an understanding of key principles to minimize (but certainly not eliminate) some of the frustration and wasted wood typically encountered during trial and error.
Different bending methods require different kinds of tools. A reliable bandsaw is a must in all of the methods except, perhaps, kerf bending. I built equipment with which I can steam solid wood when bending chair legs, and purchased additional equipment with which I can soak thin pieces as when bending the sides of oval Shaker-style boxes and chair slats. For glued-up laminations, most of the investment is in the materials used to make bending forms and, of course, copious clamps.
I won't say it's impossible to bend compound curves in 8/4 stock. However, I'd probably opt for a glued-up lamination.
Good luck,-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
Did you check out http://www.bendywood.com ? It is possible to bend some outrageous curves. Also there's a fairly recent development in Germany of gang frame saws. Basically an old method improved upon. Thin strip saws are set in a frame to whatever appropriate spacers are used. There's a company in Long Island that will saw strips from a single plank in increments of 1/10", 1/4" etc. You can supply the wood or they will. I can't recall their site at the moment but I got some samples from them and it's really impressive. It's a slower process but produces a very thin kerf and the great thing about it is the finish is good enough to glue with no planing or sanding unlike bandsawing your own laminations. Don't forget vacuum clamping which can eliminate clamps for appropriate shapes. I also posted a link to the Furniture Society's Savannah Conference which is going to have workshops on bending wood.
http://furnituresociety.org/frames/fconf/home.shtml
One can certainly learn bending on their own but everyone learns things in different ways. Personally I can't stand videos, too slow a pace for me. I get more from books, trade journals, networking and perusing the forums.
Hi Rick,
I'm familiar with a European longitudinally compressed hardwood product that's ideal for bending - I don't have my notes handy, but it could be your Bendywood. It's remarkable stuff. I also experimented with ammonia bending, which is dangerous, and stinky - best done outdoors, but can yield remarkable results; also played with multiple thin layers spiral-wrapped in plastic, which can be bent in all kinds of convoluted compound curves.
For the most part, the stuff I bend works reasonably well using conventional methods such as steaming, hot soaking, and glue-laminating, but there are, as you affirm, countless other methods that can be used to achieve virtually limitless results.
One of these days, I'll get around to playing with plywood bending to make chairs that marry elements of the Eames chair, Thonet, et al.
It's fun technology to be sure. As the kids like to say: "It's all good,"
-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
Rick, that bendy wood is cool isn't it! Would love to just try some, I wonder what it feels like...I keep thinking of playdough...Have you used any?
"... that bendy wood is cool isn't it! Would love to just try some, I wonder what it feels like..."
Alison,
Although you addressed your question to Rick, I thought I'd let you know I obtained a few samples to play with - it's remarkable stuff. Feels like "normal" wood, but it's extraordinarily flexible; think of the way old-fashioned corrugated drinking straws work, and you'll have a good idea of how the technology works, only you don't see any evidence of the compression that makes the bendiness possible!
-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
Jazz:
What did you make with it? Can you just bend it by hand? (I looked through the gallery more than the tech specs). Did it finish well etc. What was your overall assessment? Can it be "twisted"?
I think I might have to get some just for the entertainment factor.
Alison
I haven't gotten around to getting any samples of bendywood yet myself but it has interesting possibilities. I've got a video from the company that makes the equipment to process the wood. Pretty elaborate steam retort and hydraulic press involved. They have distribution in the US so it's a matter of time before it gets more available.
We use anhydrous ammonia to do fuming but haven't tried using it for bending. An old FWW article showed some kind of pressurized tank to process the stuff. To what extent did you do the ammonia technique with?
Edited 4/12/2004 8:18 pm ET by rick3ddd
Rick...hey, at the IWF a few weeks ago, I went and saw the Bendywood company that you mentioned in your post a while back.
I got one of their samples, it is just a little piece - ruler sized. It's very interesting. You can bend it with hand pressure, takes a little while, and you can twist it too. Even with the little piece it you have to use quite a bit of pressure and there is also some spring back so I imagine it would be pretty tough with a larger piece.
The rep did say that with the larger pieces they have to be attached some how to a form that will make it keep it's shape...not that it would "unwind", but the the spring back would change the shape of it. Having said that, the piece that I bent at the show is still holding the shape - a half twist at an angle- that I put it into.
The texture is weird, it's obviously wood, but innately it just feels like it's not quite right.
It is very interesting stuff. Thanks for the link.
Alison K
Glad I could be of help!
Alison,
I do an extensive amount of wood bending - steam, laminate, coopering, kerf, etc., in the custom furniture that I design and create. In the past I've posted giving specific instructions on different bending techniques. You should be able to do a Knotts Advance Search looking under my name.
If you have any specific questions, please feel free to send them along.
Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.
Edited 4/9/2004 1:30 am ET by Jackie Chan
Edited 4/9/2004 1:35 am ET by Jackie Chan
Jackie
I would love to see some of your work, do you have any photos? site?
Alison
I'm one of those people who really hate the form of "schools"
my appraoch is to try something and learn what I can on my own, I might buy a book and read it if I don't have a clue but I would rather think things through for my self..
Wood is real cheap or it should be if you get it right and if you make a mistake you have firewood to burn..
What I would do is take a chunk of wood roughly the size you're gonna need and go ahead and bend it.. (don't bother to sand or finish it etc.. but do put in any holes that will weaken it) then build a steam box and go at it.. a rough rule of thumb is one hour of steam per inch of material thickness..
pulling it out of the steam box is dependant on the thickness of the material.. if it's a thin piece you really only have seconds to mess with it so have your form ready for it and ploop it in.. if it's several inches thick you won't need to be so rushed..
what a decent school will do is have everything setup for you and the trial and error part solved.. the problem is that once you are home you'll have to get stuff set up anyway plus unless you copy exactly what the teacher does your still gonna have to figure stuff for yourself out..
why not try? worse comes to worse you go the the school knowing what questions you need to solve and you'll be much better prepared both for the class and for the results of the class.
Frenchy...you're right...and it is worth trying and doing some of my own learning, but I realized as I read your email that it made me feel kinda down to think of not going to a school. I could/will over time learn this on my own. I will probably have a bunch of failures and a bunch of middling successes and then a few really good pieces that I'm pleased with.
So why do I want to go to a school? I realize now that I'm missing the company of other woodworkers in a real time environment. I work alone all day, and for the most part I love it, but I like learning from "masters of their craft". I feel like lately I'm swimming upstream, fighting my own incompetance and lack of knowledge and just making incremental progress. I've been looking at some really beautiful work recently and I want to get to that level. I want to step up, but don't feel like I'm getting there on my own.
My local woodworkers club has a bunch of really nice folk making little toys and jig saw puzzles - yeah, I'm knocking them a bit, which is unkind - but when it would feel weird trying to talk in that environment about making a bed that twists and bends and looks like it's flowing or melting and exploring the engineering/technical issues associated with achieving that.
OK, I'll quit whining, but thanks for making me think this through.
Alison
I completely understand your perspective, well stated too!
I'm an anti social grumpy old cuss so if I went to a school I'd be pissed if they didn't teach me advanced enough stuff to make me happy and that wouldn't be fair. On the other hand I don't think it would be fair for me to copy in one week what someone spent a lifetime learning either..
Yet some wonderfull people can and do tell me and show me how to do stuff just like that.. I only hope that whenever I can help I do so..
http://www.furnituresociety.org/home.shtml
You might consider going to the Furniture Society's Savannah, Georgia, June 24-26, 2004 conference. There's going to be some bending workshops among other things as well. There's really only a few books on bending such as the one Woodcraft carries and a handfull of others. There's no one source to learn about bending wood. There's new plywood like wacky wood and other bending plywoods available at a good plywood distributor, not your home depot type places. Then there's http://www.bendywood.com the latest thing out of Europe of course. This bendy wood is really amazing stuff. A new process lets you bend wood cold into curves with virtually no springback and there are other variations of it. The downside is the process is expensive and you have to buy the processed wood.
It is unlikely that you can bend solid wood that much. The materials may well kill you.
Other than that bending wood is not hard.
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