Replies

1. 
   hikingdoc | Jun 18, 2005 11:37pm | #1

   I recently bought the Lie-Nielson scraper plane.  Unfortuantely, I've been less than impressed.  At first it worked like a charm and raised large shavings.  I used it to strip off some old finish from a table and did an impressive job.  But it quickly dulled and I've been unable to get it to function properly.  I am proficient at sharpening plane, chisels, etc and I can't really understand why it won't work.  I've tried adjusting the angle, depth of shave, etc.  My next step is to call Lie-Nielson and get some advice.  For now, it's back to card scrapers...

   happy sawdust,

   hikingdoc

1. 
   wchips | Jun 18, 2005 11:54pm | #2

        I have a Lie Nielson scraper plane also, and less than impressed with it. Mine chatters like i am taking too deep a cut. ive tried setting it to take off a vary fine shaving , still does it. I am doing some thing wrong , WHAT?

                                        Have a nice day Lee.

1. 
   jazzdogg | Jun 19, 2005 06:26am | #6

   Lee,

   Are you sharpening the blade with or without a burr?

   You might want to try holding the blade in your bare hands to determine the most effective cutting angle; then try to mount the blade in your scraper plane at approximately the same angle.

    -Jazzdogg-

   Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.

1. 
   wchips | Jun 20, 2005 06:59pm | #13

       I sharpen the blade with a burr. Ill have to try and chang the angle. Thanks

                                  Have a nice day Lee

2. 
   WillGeorge | Jun 19, 2005 07:28pm | #8

   Great post......

   I use card scrapers all the time.. Much more than any plane I have... I was thinking of getting a scraper plane.. Maybe I'll think on it a bit..

   Thanks..

   EDIT:: I'll look into the Stanley #80

   Thanks again to all!

   Edited 6/19/2005 12:30 pm ET by Will George

   Edited 6/19/2005 12:30 pm ET by Will George

2. 
   Midnight | Jun 19, 2005 01:19am | #3

   Will..

   short answer is that it depends on the scale of the job; anthing small enough to be done with card scrapers won't be made easier with a scraper plane.

   I bought the L-N #112 and like the other comments have said, it can be a bear to sharpen and tune; tons o "suck-it-n-see"... but once you find the right pitch and depth of cut for the board you're working, it'll make light work of it. Get the tune wrong and it can leave the board in a far worse state than when you started... Plenty of practice on offcuts required to find the right tune.

   From what I hear, the new Lee Valley scraper plane may be easer (read more forgiving) in use... It's designed to use either a thick, inflexable blade or a thin flexable blade that can be "sprung" similar to their card scraper holder.

   Mike Wallace

   Stay safe....Have fun

3. 
   PlaneWood | Jun 19, 2005 06:07am | #4

   Before you go out and spend big bucks to get one, try a Stanley #80.  I think that will answer your question.

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)
   PlaneWood

1. 
   Yogi | Jun 20, 2005 04:04am | #10

   That Stanley #80 is a look-til-you-find-one item?  Or is there somewhere to order one?  Thanks-

1. 
   PlaneWood | Jun 20, 2005 06:05am | #11

   Dave - I'm pretty sure they're still being sold.  Just checked,  Woodcrafters have them.  http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=575  $37.00

   Probably find one cheaper on Ebay. 

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood

1. 
   Yogi | Jun 20, 2005 07:49am | #12

   Thanks Mike-  I'll look into it-  Dave

4. 
   Telemike | Jun 19, 2005 06:18am | #5

   I have a Kunz scraper plane, an inexpensive reproduction of a good old stanley scraper plane. After a lot of filing and flattening, lapping and turning the burr on the blade, it works quite well. Note that you have to watch grain direction to avoid chattering whatever scraper plane you've got. You should always skew the blade except for light final cuts in wood you trust. If it chatters, try skewing the scraper the other way.

   I actually like the Kunz #80 handled scraper better. A lot better. In fact, the old #80 is the best finishing handtool I've seen yet and beats planes and sanding hands down in wood that isn't exceptionally well behaved. I invested a bit of time tuning the Kunz #80 also. Someday I may go to a Hock blade for both. You can probably find a much more expensive handled scraper than the Kunz or the Stanley and it'll probably work quite a bit better without any investment in fettling it. But, I can't afford everything as I ease into retirement (read as "shift into high").

5. 
   Peter36 | Jun 19, 2005 03:26pm | #7

   Hello Will George. I have the Lie-Nielsen cabinet makers scraper plane. THe blade is thick like on a regular plane. You can use it with, or without a burr. There are no angles to adjust and no amount of flex to control. It is very easy to use and I think it is a pretty good tool.   Peter

6. 
   cherryjohn | Jun 20, 2005 01:39am | #9

   Oh yes.....I have 2 LN..the small one and the middle one..................damn good tools and when the occasion arises.....nothing better

   I was having problems with that small one until someone showed me how to set it up right......now, in the right situations its is a dream

    

   Wicked Decent Woodworks

   (oldest woodworking shop in NH)

   Rochester NH

   " If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"

   
   

   ---

   Edited 6/19/2005 6:46 pm ET by CHERRYJOHN

7. 
   Handrubbed | Jun 21, 2005 02:08am | #14

   I have a LN medium cabinet-makers scraper plane.  There are not adjustments on it except depth of cut.  You adjust it by putting 1 thickness of paper under the toe of the plane and tightening the thumbscrew.  I did nothing but hone the factory grind angle using scary sharp methods.  I do not turn a burr, which is a more advanced technique.  I have great success with this tool and have used it right up to white oak hardness.  It does need rehoning on very fine paper fairly often, but the tool is rather new, and cryo genic A-2 steel does not generally reach maximum hardness until after a few sharpenings.  You might consider having a spare sharp blade on hand.

1. 
   jazzdogg | Jun 21, 2005 02:53am | #15

   "cryo genic A-2 steel does not generally reach maximum hardness until after a few sharpenings. "

   QS,

   Fascinating! Can you please let me know where you learned this so I can learn more?

   Thanks,-Jazzdogg-

   Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.

1. 
   Handrubbed | Jun 21, 2005 04:51am | #16

   Popular Woodworking Dec 2001 "Why You Should Freeze Your Tools":

   In cryogenic treatment (such as Lie-Nielsen's) there is a thin film of untreated metal up to.0001" thick.  Added wear resistance is not achieved until this layer is sharpened away.  This is known as the "thin film phenomenon".

    

1. 
   jazzdogg | Jun 21, 2005 05:04am | #17

   Thanks, QS!

   It is terrific to learn at least one new thing every day - one of the best things about this forum,-Jazzdogg-

   Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.

2. 
   philip | Jun 21, 2005 09:03am | #18

   Hi Q/s,
   Do you know if that cold treatment is also done on Veritas plane blades?

   Edited 6/21/2005 3:12 am ET by mookaroid

1. 
   roblee | Jun 21, 2005 09:29pm | #19

   No, it's not.

   There is no evidence we are aware of that cryo treatment has any detrimental or beneficial effects on properly heat treated A2 steel.

   We've done extensive testing on it - and can find no difference ouselves either.

   Cheer -

    

   Rob Lee

    

    

2. 
   philip | Jun 22, 2005 12:11pm | #21

   Hello Rob,
   This was a leading question on my part, and the answer I was hoping for comes from the horse's mouth, so to speak- thanks.
   Having made more than a few hunting knives in the past, I am aware that there is almost as much mythology in heat treatment of various steels etc than there is in woodworking.
   To the best of my knowledge, a sub zero or cryogenic quench may achieve an increase in hardness, with no benefit to wear resistance ,in the case of A2 steel.
   Now my question is:- why is d2 steel rather than A2 not used for these blades? It holds a superior edge, has better wear resistence than A2 and the heat treatment is less complicated.
   Definitely gone off the original subject here-but one never knows what can crop up no this forum-some people even say they are bored with it...

   Edited 6/22/2005 5:13 am ET by mookaroid

3. 
   roblee | Jun 22, 2005 02:03pm | #23

   Hi -

   We've looked at D2, and found that it was just too hard to sharpen, and could be too fragile for lower angle use... it's a good steel - but we just didn't feel it was good for the average user....

   We actually have a few thousand scrub plane blades in D2....an ordering error....! :(

   Cheers -

    

   Rob

    

    

4. 
   papanick | Jun 22, 2005 07:11pm | #24

   Oh. I could take a few of them off your hands.....

   3/16 thick D2 blanks? Think about the parts you could make.The older I get, the better I was....

5. 
   Jellyrug | Jun 22, 2005 08:44pm | #25

   Rob,

   Interesting, I use to be heavily involved in metallurgy (Design Engineer for Mercedes Benz) , a long time ago and frowned upon the latest developments in Cryogenic Mettalurgy.

   The change of Austenite properties to Martensite properties have however been accepted in general and the evidence is available. I guess industrial applications would benefit more than plane irons, but I do notice that it takes longer to get a polished surface on the back of a LN iron, compared to yours. Perhaps it's just me?

   You can find two links here, that clearly show the results by electron micrograph and wear tests performed. The second link may be a bit of marketing thrown in...

   Link 1

   Link 2

2. 
   Patto | Jun 22, 2005 08:00am | #20

    

   I have a Veritas cabinet scraper that I recently used to finish a very difficult and hard (eucalyptus blakelyi) red gum table. Only thing that worked on this task other than sandpaper (I don't own one of the flasher type planes though)

   http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&cat=1,310&p=46266

8. 
   philip | Jun 22, 2005 01:28pm | #22

   Ah Will,
   Having posted off the subject of this thread twice now , I would like to give you an answer to your question "is a scraper plane worth the cost?"
   I think not, especially in the case of the big L/Nielsen, but one would have more of a case for the smaller one ,except that it too is mighty expensive, being made of bronze. The good thing about the small one is that it is small enough for frame and panel work-unlike the big one.
   The big trouble with both of them is that they are danged wellmade good looking tools....I put them in the category of "things one would Like to have, but don't Need."
   In the mean time I get along with the very versatile combination of card scrapers and Stanley #80
   However, if I did stumble upon a Stanley#112 at an acceptable price or even a new Kunz scraper plane-aaargh dangit all I still like that little bronze item.
   How's that for a clear answer?

1. 
   WillGeorge | Jun 23, 2005 08:48pm | #26

   "things one would Like to have, but don't Need."..

   DAMN! THEN I GOT to get one!