Replies

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 24, 2003 07:15am | #1

   Sarge

      My suggestion to you is go ahead and order the Lee Valley scraping plane tomorrow morning and just find out on your own. Just forget all the advice you've recieved so far and "go for it". Win, lose or draw you will be able to answer your own question within a week with hands-on experience. Sometimes it proves to be the best solution. ha.. ha....

   Good Luck...

   sarge..jt

   Proud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   uncommontree | Nov 24, 2003 07:42am | #2

   Sarge,

   Would this be considered taking your own advice. I to was faced with that same question a couple of months ago. I ordered the LEE Valley scraping plane and have no complaints it is a very nice tool ,very well made. One of those life time tools. I am still getting used to the control's but very happy about my purchase. Happy shopping Rick.

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 24, 2003 09:09am | #3

   Rick

      Thanks for the note. I was wondering if anyone on this forum owned and used one. Probably not many as I knew before I posted. Then there's a timing thing on the week-end with everyone headed in different directions. During the week would have been a better time to ask.

      It was pretty much a go, just testing for anything negative I hadn't thought of. I'm making the call in the morning to get it headed south-bound. In about two weeks or so, I should know about it inside-out. ha..ha..

   Hope all is well, sub-man..

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   Ricky_Yu | Nov 24, 2003 12:27pm | #4

   I have had the Lie-Nielsen 112 large scraper plane for about a year and it is a superb plane. I used it on some desk tops with a rather thick curly maple veneer and it is certainly less fatiguing than a card scraper. I'm still trying to fine tune the blade angle for the most efficient cutting action. For smaller areas, I still use a card scraper because it offers me better control. But on big surfaces of figured woods, you can't beat the width of the blade and the heft of the plane.

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 24, 2003 05:52pm | #6

   Ricky

      Thanks for the in-put. Pretty much the conclussion I had come to. Was looking for first-hand second opinions. I have used a card scraper for 30 years. Probably one of the most used tools in my shop.

   Thanks again...

   sarge..jt

   Proud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

   Edited 11/24/2003 10:04:59 AM ET by SARGE

3. 
   Scrit | Nov 24, 2003 01:45pm | #5

   Using an #80 beats the heck out of blistering your thumbs with a hand-held scraper on larger surfaces! I reckon it's quicker, too. I have an old beaten-up Record #080 that does a lot of work. The #112 is even better to use on large projects like desktops 'coz it's much more like planing, and I find that easier. The only problem on the original #112 (and for that matter the L-N) is that you'll have to round off the corners of the scraper blade to avoid the corners digging in a bit - this is because the blade can't be flexed to an arc - I believe that Rob Lee has addressed this on his new #112.

   Scrit

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 24, 2003 06:03pm | #7

   Scrit

      Thanks. That problem has been addressed by Veritas (Lee Valley of Canada) also. They added an ingenious little thumb-screw to give the blade and arc which lifts the corners. Theirs comes with two blades. A little thinner one for the arc and a full 1/8". The 1/8" might have to have the corners rounded, but that's no biggie as it is custom procedure an all smoothing planes. Will just have to play and see what the best set-up for it is. Good news, I have been tinkering for 30 years with tools trying to get the extra inch.

      Have a Stanley #80 and wouldn't be without a card scraper. They have probably logged more time than any other tools I have. I think the scraping plane is due a chance at this point though.

   Regards for the day...

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   Biscardi | Nov 25, 2003 07:45pm | #12

   Scrit,

   I have a # 80. Even after reading Garret Hack's book on planes I still cant turn a proper burr on it. Do you have any suggestions on sharpening it?

   Thanks

   frank

1. 
   BG | Nov 25, 2003 07:59pm | #14

   Biscardi,

   I acquired an 80 last week and spent some quality time sharpening it this past weekend.  It was a lot tougher than I thought it would be.  I did the scary sharp system at 45 degrees on both ends....making the blade a trapazoid....went up to 4000 grit on wet stones and left the burr on.  I then used a nail punch to put a 5 degree edge on both ends of the blade.  

2. 
   Scrit | Nov 25, 2003 08:47pm | #16

   Hi Biscardi

   I've read the Hack book and it seems to work for me, just like BG says. Make sure that you stone the edge with a fine stone, not just file it (that was my first mistake when I started). The only real difference in my technique is that my ticketer (burnisher) is a solid tungsten carbide shank from a broken spiral router cutter glued into a file handle - I went this way because I found that trying to turn the burr with a screwdriver wasn't hacking it, but many people just use a hardened steel ticketer without problems. The heavy cutter on a #80 may need several strokes at every angle to produce a burr.

   There was another thread a while back which touched on the same theme - that only a really hard piece of steel or carbide is hard enough - that and sufficient pressure. I've also been that the Lee Valley website has a description of how to sharpen the cutters for their #80, so that may be worth taking a look at.

   Mack

   The cutters used are just silver steel or tool steel, so there's no need to buy specials - I know that in the USA Ron Hock, St. James Bay Tool, Veritas and Lie-Nielsen all produce scraper blades and that replacement Record and Stanley cutters should alos be available - but if pushed a cadged piece of band resaw blade (the 3 or 4 in wide stuff) will do just as well (time expired blades are much cheaper, too)

   Regards

   Scrit

4. 
   lwilliams | Nov 24, 2003 09:42pm | #8

   Sarge,

   I've got the Stanley 112 and never use it. The design isn't all that comfortable and for long strokes over large areas you end up with the iron digging into your forearms or wrists. I don't like the #80 either. It's basically an oxymoron--the scrub plane of scrapers. I don't want heavy stock removal when I'm scraping and can't figure out why anyone would.

   There is a real sleeper in cabinet scrapers, it's the Stanley #81. They're not adjustable as to bed angle like some others, instead they're just set to the proper angle. Kind of a novelty, eh? They have a rosewood sole and glide over wood like a dream. They're comfortable to use and easy to set, just fold a piece of paper and put it under the toe then set the blade to the surface you're resting the "plane" on.

   There isn't a big collector demand for these and many are missing a lot of their nickle plating which makes 'em undesirable for collectors. The only drawback is that the  original owners knew their value and these puppies often have spent blades. In fact, it's a little difficult to find one with a close to full blade. That might tell us something right there. These sell for less than half of what a #112 goes for and it's a much better tool. Just don't tell anyone, if the word gets out the price will go up.

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 25, 2003 08:43am | #10

   Larry

         Thanks for the input. I have and use a Stanley #80 and agree it is more of a scrub than scrape. I mainly use a hand card in a Veritas holder as it keeps the hands cool and prevents hand fatique. I like the holder, but thought the plane might get quicker results on larger surfaces.

      The Veritas has a thumb-screw that will put an arc on the thinner blade and has an optional 1/8 blade for using with a set angle. It was based on the Stanly #112, but they widened the base and lenght.

      I have seen the #81 in I believe Hack's book. Have an opportunity soon to look at a kid at my part time works grand-fathers hand-tools. His G-F died and his dad is going to put them on e-bay. They are going to let me look at them first. I know he has an old Stanley bed-rock jointer. Not sure what else he has but will be on the look-out for a #81.

      BTW, any peferences on a spoke-shave, new or used?

   Thanks...

   sarge..jt

   Proud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

   Edited 11/25/2003 1:05:11 AM ET by SARGE

2. 
   Mackwood | Nov 25, 2003 08:00pm | #15

   Larry,

   You're quite right about the 81,  really a nice, under-appreciated tool.  I do prefer the #12 or 12 1/2 however.  The handle style solves the problem you mentioned with the highly touted (and valued) 112 and the size makes it great for larger items like table tops.  These are availble and at a cost that won't give you sticker shock.  As you mentioned about the 81's, the original blades are scarce but Kuntz makes a blade for their copy of the 112 that I get for $8.95.  It's not as good as the original but is just as thick.  Works just fine, only needs sharpening more often.  I have found a replacement for the 81 blade but it is not as thick as original so does not work as designed.  I like the variable angle of the 12 & 12 1/2 because I can get more scraping out of a sharpening. 

   I have a 112 and like you, rarely use it  (Sure is pretty though).  Have an 80, 81, 12 and 12 1/2 and use all regularly (except the 80, don't like it).  But!, as others have mentioned; the last I would do without is the plain old Sandvik card scraper!!

   Warm regards and scraper shavings!

   Mack

5. 
   Jimma | Nov 25, 2003 01:22am | #9

   Hi, Sarge -- My experience is pretty much like Ricky's above. There is a slight learning curve to using it because the angle of the blade can be adjusted to suit the work at hand and you have to play a bit to get it right. L-N recommends NO burr on the edge, just a really flat back and precision bevel without a micro-bevel. I agree with above comments about the corners. Don't know abut the LV models, but whatever you do don't get sucked into buying a Kunz (the green one). Total waste of money as far as I'm concerned.

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 25, 2003 09:03am | #11

   Jim

      Thanks for the input on the learning curve. I like to piddle with these things since I recently got interested in hand planes again. I have spent a number of hours messing with different set-ups to see what will happen. From what I've learned here on the net and hands-on piddling I'm catching on pretty well if I get to grade myself. ha..ha..

      I have access to Kunz at Highland. Have looked at them, but the design, machining and feel did not float my boat. May be someone else's (Frid.. he..), but not my cup of tea. They kind of look like they're made of surplus Panzer and Luftka parts left from WWII. ha.. ha..

   Regards...

   sarge.jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   Jimma | Nov 25, 2003 07:57pm | #13

   If you're looking for a spokeshave, look no further than L-N. I all but gave up on spokeshaves after buying a couple of the "blue" ones. Then I got one of the small ones, all bronze except for the blade, and found orgasmic woodworking. The newer Brian Boggs model is slightly larger, but I haven't tried it.

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 26, 2003 07:26am | #17

   Jim

      I have not had the opportunity to try the LN spoke-shave. I have used a Dave's Shave, Clifton, Kelley (Miller Falls replica) and Veritas. Haven't even seen the Brian Boggs except in a mag yet.

      I will attempt to take a test ride with LN and Boggs before I make a decision on that. It's not as much of a priority at the moment. Just tesing the water in advance while I got a few folks corraled here that know them and use them.

   Thanks for the input, again...

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)