Replies

1. 
   DRBWWing | May 18, 2022 09:24am | #1

   I use a cabinet scraper only for rough work, really in lieu of a hand plane if I'm worried about tear out.

   Card scraping first, then sanding.

   If I have scraped, I don't see a need for orbital sanding. The final sanding is always hand sanding. I think you're better off staying away from orbital sanders for all but the rough sanding.

2. 
   ysu65 | May 18, 2022 12:31pm | #2

   This thread needs more definition.

   What are you making? I just finished three 22 x 44 hickory coffee tables. Did I want to card scrap all that surface area? I am working on a bunch of charcuterie boards out of cherry, walnut, and locust. Can I use a card scraper on those items? Yes, and I did, especially around the edges to get rid of burn areas, but ROS and some hand sanding on the surfaces. The locust will go right to the 4 x 24 belt sander then the ROS.

   Do I use a card scraper? Yep, a lot to get rid of specific defects - and sometimes my #80 scraper, too. Do I use hand planes? Yes, just enjoyed a pleasant interlude in my shop with a scrub and Bailey #7 jointer plane getting one side of a chain sawed cherry slab flat enough to go through a planer.

   I'm sure that it is recognized here by some here that different projects require different techniques. Just let us know what you are making so we understand the use of the tool.

1. 
   EdWeber | May 18, 2022 12:48pm | #3

   That's pretty much what I was going to say.
   The wood, the project, the desired finish, etc. While a scrape and sand work for one type of project, it simply not applicable for everything.
   My regime is: to know what I want and then determine what the wood needs to get it there, then proceed.

2. 
   roy.unit8c | May 18, 2022 01:48pm | #4

   Good answer. I just did the final glue up on a cherry and sweet gum desktop organizer. I just used hand-planes, card scrapers, and 220 grit sandpaper. I pre-finished the inside pieces with shellack, carefully covering up where I needed to glue up joinery.

3. 
   TaunTonMacoute | May 18, 2022 02:14pm | #5

   The "finish right off the plane" guys have never built anything with a curve or a swelling that won't accommodate a No. 4.

   Scrape and hand sand to 220+. The sanding is more about homogenizing the surface for the finish routine to follow. You may even decide to sand in an oil finish. It takes the tactile feel of the surface to another level IMO.

   FW did an article several years ago that let the air out of the argument that somebody could tell the last tool to touch a board after a finish had been applied.

   I'm also always amazed at the guys who end up with dozens of project components ready to be joined up into a finished piece of furniture, and not a single one of them ever end up with a thumb smudge, a little ding, or spot of shop "dirt" easily rectified with fine grit. Planing everything perfectly clean, and keeping it that way throughout the whole project? That's quite an accomplishment. Planing out all the little discrepancies that arise? Good way to end up with undersized components.

4. 
   user-3395150 | May 18, 2022 06:41pm | #6

   If the surface is flat I handplane then go to 220, sometimes straight to 320. I usually only scrape if I'm getting tearout. For curved surfaces, it's usually spokeshave, rasp, maybe scrape, then sand.

5. 
   lat_axe | May 19, 2022 03:52am | #7

   Yes, various woodworking tool-horses for different furniture-courses, as others have said.

   Some common courses are oak and similar, with open grain and thicker wood fibres. Others are cherry and similar, with fine fibres and closed grain.

   The former don't really benefit much from grits above 180, unless the grain is being filled to create a smoother surface. On the other hand, cherry can be sanded to 600 grit to increase the view of any chatoyance; or to reduce what those in the USA call "blotching" - which is better reduced by fine sanding than by trying to treat it with a variety of mysterious goos. :-)

   Personally I think of scraping as a kind of planing, which is OK as a final finish for some styles of furniture (those in which a bit of "maker's mark" is welcome) but not for others. If a more "perfected" finish is required, hand sanding to finer grits is the final step before applying the goo. Even the coats of goo might get sanded (800 grit) as each dries, to eliminate nibs and provide a key for the next coat.

   RO sanders are good for fine finishing with finer grits, if the RO makes 3mm rather than 5mm circles and has a hard pad, all wielded by an experienced RO sander user. Coarse grits in an RO sander are good for removing old finish or otherwise smoothing a surface that has some indication of when the rough is gone. Trying to flatten an already smooth surface with only an RO sander is generally going to be an exercise in making new hollows and hillocks.

   A belt sander in a sanding frame can flatten - but planes are faster. A well set-up thickness planer with sharp knives, a large motor and an even larger dust collector is fastest of all.

   Lataxe

6. 
   CStanford | May 19, 2022 07:50am | #8

   Lataxe has summed it up quite nicely.

   Some insist on finishing right off the plane, but this obviously precludes curved and shaped work where planes often won't fit.

7. 
   roy.unit8c | May 19, 2022 08:20am | #9

   Thanks for all the great insights.

8. 
   jharveyb | May 19, 2022 05:55pm | #10

   As always, I agree with Lataxe. My further comments in support:
   Sanding oak and other similar woods (ash, hickory,...):
   If you plan to use a dark wiping stain on these woods, don't sand past 180 grit, or the stain will wipe right off the hard areas, leaving very light areas in contrast with the very dark open pores. The stain needs some "tooth" to catch into. I now almost always use a dye (TransTint) instead of a oil based wiping stain, as it is easier to get a uniform color with it. You can follow it with a wiping stain to get a bit more contrast if desired.

   With the fine grained woods like cherry and maple, I always use a cabinet scraper to remove the thickness planer marks, as it is fast and worry free. (I have never worked with straight grained cherry or maple). I have a Stanley #80 for coarse work, a #81 with a rosewood sole for finer work, and a #112 scraper plane for large flat surfaces. I then start sanding with 220 grit, go to 320 and 400 after that. It took me years to realize that the folks who struggled with "blotching" had created the problem for themselves, by using coarse sandpaper on the figured wood, and then not removing enough with the finer grits to get past the damaged layer. Don't damage the wood with coarse sandpaper in the first place. (As a side note, always thoroughly remove all sanding dust from one grit before moving to the next finer grit, as there can be some abrasive particles in the dust that have broken off the paper and will continue to scratch the wood as they are rubbed around.)

   I use a RO sander with 220 grit after scraping or planing to even the texture and remove any rub marks from the sole of the tool. Then I hand sand with 320 (and sometimes 400 grit) before finishing. On woods like cherry or maple, or figured woods, there is a visible difference between the surface after 22o and after 320. The surface is more polished (and any rough areas stand out by comparison, as they catch the fine dust and are gray/white instead of the wood color.)

   There are woods like figured mahogany that are tough to sand by hand, as the fibers flex back and forth instead of being cut by the sandpaper. I have discovered that with these, I need the RO sander's quickness of movement to cut the fibers before they can flex. (I used to use an antique 1/3 sheet buzz sander before I got the RO.)

   If I had 320 grit discs for my RO, I might use them on the figured wood. On relatively straight grained wood, I'd rather hand sand with the grain.

   The guy that helped me learn to sharpen and use a cabinet scraper on hard maple said, "I'll be applying finish while the belt sander people will still be changing belts."