I’ve just purchased an antique mahogany octagonal table, but it unfortunately has rather a lot of deep scratches to the table top.
I guess the decision is whether to attempt to fill and disguise them vs a strip sand and refinish – I am suspecting the latter may be the route to go due to how deep and numerous the scratches are.
Can those of you with a bit more knowledge than me on tackling antique finishes (that will be most of you!) please advise me on the best approach?
Replies
You could use burn in sticks to try to fill the scratches, but that would take a lot of time and still be noticeable. How deep do the scratches go into the wood? If that's a veneer top you'll have to be careful not to sand through if you go that route. Either way I think this piece will end up looking used, but cared for when you're done.
Personally, I would strip just the top. Then sand and fill a little, but not get rid of every mark. Finally I'd stain and finish it to match the rest of the piece.
There's old and there is ANTIQUE. I mean how would Bonhams rate your table? This can be important because you want to be careful on how you approach a potentially valuable piece.....or it is not particularly valuable except maybe to you and then you have a lot more leeway in what you do. In either case I wouldn't fill the scratches. Sometimes dampening the scratch will cause it to swell a bit, might help. I'd probably hand scrape the top to bare wood and hopefully remove the shallower scratches. At a certain point trying to remove very deep scratches can be destructive to the top. They're just too deep! On a deeper scratch like that, and I mean deep in the sense that it starts to interfer with the function of the top, I would use stick shellac. It comes as a kit usually in various colors and you mix and match until you get a good color match to the wood. The stuffs not cheap but you'll have it for years.. I use a palette knife and a soldering iron to apply the shellac stick. Scrape it flat and clean and on a good antique I would French polish. On a less valuable piece I'd probably still use shellac and I mix my own, but be my guest as to what you want to use. The rest of the piece of furniture I would leave alone as much as possible. Some defects on an old piece of furniture you can view as the patina of life.. A true conservator has a huge arsenal of pigments and dyes and chemistry to reproduce what was there....and hopefully experience ,something your not going to find at the minwax display at the Ace, or from advice by that 20 year old at the counter at the paint store.
First things first. Is it veneer, or solid? The solution really depends on that answer.
I can say for sure that you have a lot of scratches,and filling will always jump out at you.
Nice looking table. Obviously the shallower scratches will be easier to sand out. I wouldn't bother trying to get rid of the deeper ones.
1st - I'd sand out the shallow scratches with a belt sander & 60 grit paper then follow through the grits (80, 100, 150) with a random orbit sander and hand sand with 220. I would, but it's not essential, to go to 320. That should minimize the ugliness of the deepest scratches.
Urethane is good for filling scratches. It'll take quite a few coats, from what I can tell from the picture but it'll work. And urethane can be colored to (hopefully) match the existing color.
My 2 pennies' worth.
Mikaol
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Thanks very much for your replies. I can confirm its a solid top, not veneer. I also wouldn't need to touch the rest of the table it is in good condition, its only the top that is marked. I doubt it is worth anything much inparticular, its just a nice old piece that suits us and the position we have it in - it sits nicely within an octagonal corner bay window.
I do agree that an old piece can carry some marks and signs of age well, but I am afraid that these scratches are not of a nature that will add to the patina of the piece even when filled and disguised...
The scratches are deep, well through the finish and into the timber - you can really feel them as you run your fingers over.
Should I try sanding them out - and if so would I be able then to refinish the top similar to how it was in colour tone and finish?
Just for your interest, this is how the rest of the table looks. I bought it this week at an auction.
There are some deep scratches here, I see one where the wood color is white , that is unusual for a solid table likely made of mahogany. But if it is in fact solid wood through, a good woodworker with a belt sander can bring it back to like new , if you have those skills then get your 4 X24 belt sander and start making dust.
Ivor, Nice piece!
I'd take a slow removal approach. You can always remove more material but cannot add it back.
Options:
1. If you are good with hand tools I would use a well sharpened hand scraper to remove the existing finish and the lighter surface scratches getting the surface down to bare wood. At that point I'd use a No. 4 smoothing hand plane taking about .001 inch shavings until the surface was smooth except for the deepest scratches. Then you can go right to finish or lightly sand then finish.
2. I'm dangerous with a belt sander so it would not be my weapon of choice. I'd use a Random Orbital Sander 5" or 6" starting out on a slow speed probably with 120 grip sandpaper to remove finished wood and then work up the grits to 220 and finalize with 220 or 320 by hand. You need to make sure that you do equal passes on the entire surface with the ROS to avoid dishing out an area. This is where the belt sander would be better in someone else's hands.
Post some pictures when you finish it.
Before you do anything drastic try this:
Use a flat sanding block, about 2x4 inches, with a firm rubber or cork pad and 150-180 grit sandpaper. Sand the entire surface evenly by hand. Don't try to remove all of the finish down to the wood, but do try to get the surface below the scratches. Once you have sanded as far as you can without going through the existing finish, apply a coat of polyurethane and let it thoroughly dry. Check the surface carefully. If you still see some of the scratches, particularly if you can feel them, go through the process again. Sanding again with the flat block will leave the new layer of poly in the scratch and hopefully, lower the surrounding surface to that level. Apply more poly and let it dry. Keep doing this until the scratches are filled and the surface is all level. It is lots of work, but the results are worth it. Once the surface is level, sand it again with 220 just to give some "tooth" to the surface and apply a final coat.
Be sure to remove all of the sanding dust between coats. Assuming you are using oil based poly, you can use a cloth slightly dampened with mineral spirits to do this. Don't blow it off as that will just put it into the air where it will settle onto the fresh poly.
I highly recommend trying the easiest and least damaging approach first. The right solvent will soften the finish and allow you to wipe it around much like applying a wipe-on oil, though you will wipe a little or a lot of it off, depending how thick it is. You may want to use 0000 steel wool if there is a lot of it, then wipe with a cloth. When it dries, you should have a decent looking satin finish with no scratches. If you want more gloss, you can wipe on a couple coats of whatever right on top of it.
Re dissolving the finish and restoring it: I forgot about the solvents. If the finish is shellac (not real likely), denatured alcohol will work. If it is lacquer and some other concoctions, lacquer thinner will work. If it is varnish, this scheme might or might not work. I have had some luck with Woodfinisher's Pride Varnish Stripping Gel. Lacquer thinner and strippers require extra attention to safe handling and vapors. Note that if this doesn't work, you are no worse off than you were.
Thanks again all. I think the suggestions of stripping the lacquer first is a sensible approach - although I do think the scratches are deeper than the lacquer,and I may end up sanding. I have a selection of decent hand planes and I do have a Rotax 150 and a couple of belt sanders -so when / if I do decide to got that route, they should suffice - but yes I am wary I would have to sand very evenly so as not to get any dips and be careful of the edges. My woodworking has always been limited to making new things rather than restoring old things!
For those of you knowledgable on finishes - What type of finish do you think it will have and how do I test to find out what it is as this will influence my striping approach and refinishing method?
Its always a good idea to first clean the surface with mineral spirit, there could have been wax used in the past and that might interfere with the stripping process. If you have alcohol on hand try it but I am almost certain it’s a varnish so a stripping gel should be the way to go. Even if you end up sanding, stripping the old finish first is a good practice.
Re. which finish? First, washing with min spirits is good advice. Then just try the solvents in order of aggressiveness. Try the denatured alcohol first. If that doesn't work, try the lacquer thinner. You might well get lucky there. If that doesn't work, try the stripper.
The great thing about this approach, when it works, is that you haven't done anything rash to the color, unless it is a combination stain/finish, or the patina, or to any veneer or edges. Take off as little of the finish as you reasonably can and you may not need to add any.
Also consider protecting the surfaces that you do not plan to strip with painters tape and plastic to avoid the "stripper" getting on those surfaces.
P.S. First check on a scrap piece to make sure the tape and plastic are effective against whatever stripping method you use.
Thanks guys for all the advice, I’ll try and strip the finish first before I try sanding - I’ll update with pics as I go - not sure when I will start though - gotta build up the courage first! Lol
One word of caution. Unless you are an expert with hand planes and sharpening, be careful. Mahogany grain likes to change direction constantly. You can get a lot of tear-out using a hand plane. Card scrapers are more forgiving and easier to control for "twitchy grain". Solid mahogany. WOW. I'd get it appraised before I did anything. The feet are one indication of its age. By the way, you have a good eye. The table is beautiful. Good luck to you.
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