Greetings –
I’m building a door and frame for an outside access to the fireplace firewood storage box. It’s roughly 24″ x 24″. Making a four sided frame from ipe with milled stop at the head and jambs. The door will be a veneer (of sorts) of an aluminum sandwich panel adhered to 1/2″ marine grade plywood.
The question revolves around how to hinge the door to this frame. Standard door butt hinges won’t work, the leaves are too wide for the thickness of the door. My thinking is to use a piano hinge. Screws for these hinges are typically pretty short. 3/4″ or slightly less. The threads don’t seem too aggressive for holding in the ipe. I realize that sounds contradictory but this ipe is so dense I get the feeling that it would be very easy to strip out screws unless the pilot hole is just right and extreme care used in installing the screws.
Has anyone used small screws in ipe and if so, how successful was it?
Thanks…..
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Replies
My experience with screws in Ipe makes me think you ought to shy away from the screws that come with the piano hinge. I'm assuming it's a brass piano hinge with brass screws? I put an outdoor animal shelter together with some Ipe left over from a project and twisted the heads of a couple of drywall screws and one standard wood screw. You're right to be concerned about pilot hole sizes. Better err on the larger side. I wouldn't think that the 3/4" screw length would be a problem though. My impression is, that given the right size pilot hole, once Ipe gets a hold on the screw, it's not going to let go. You might want to try McFeeleys website. I think they make some hardened self drilling screws specifically made for this gnarly stuff. Not sure if they come in the size you're looking for but worth a try.
One other thing to consider. The Ipe is going to add significant weight to your doors. Might force you into a beefier hinge just due to the weight?
Douglas -Yep- drywall screws are pretty brittle alright. Guess I should have been a little more clear - I'm not making a frame and panel door like for a cabinet. This will be the frame, as in door frame as in the side of the house, frame for a little access door. As such, once the frame is in place and secured to the brick that surrounds it, connections at the corners are superflous. It only needs to be fastened at the corners to allow easy installation.I opted out of the piano hinge idea and got a small pair of stainless steel butt hinges with more agressive and heavier screws. Lumber yards around here call this stuff ironwood. I understand why now. Spent as much time sharpening chisels as I did mortising out for the two hinges.Since screwing on a stop from the back of the frame didn't sound to inviting I decided to dado a groove for the door stop. Now the question becomes ..... is epoxy the only glue that will work with this stuff? Plastic resin? It's an exterior condition and subject to frequent blown rain against the fireplace wall where it's located.Hmmmmmmm ..... think the brad nailer is out, too. (grin)
...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
"the brad nailer is out, too." ROFL!!! Probably end up with the nailer in your teeth! Pop-BONK! Yikes.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Dennis, Ipe is hard as hell.Stainless steel finish screws on decks routinely snap the heads. Experiment with pilot hole size. Use largest pilot hole that holds screw.Wax a steel screw of the same size, cut threads with it, then wax the hinge screws and screw by hand if you can.You don't need a piano hinge, small hinges in brass are readily available.
mike
Hi Mike -Thanks for the reply.Indeed, as I mentioned to Doug - they call it ironwood around here and now I know why!Also, as noted, I've gone to ordinary butt hinges (one pair) in stainless steel.The door isn't made out of ipe, Mike. The ipe is just for the frame. The door is a piece of this aluminum building panel stuff about 1/8" thick that will be laminated onto a piece of 3/4" plywood for stiffness. I think I'll have to edge the plywood with solid lumber though to give the hinge screws something to bite into............
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
I was pretty much just trying to express that brass screws+Ipe=broken screws (IMHO). As far as gluing, I've used Goop Marine Adhesive-Sealer (didn't work worth a darn) and epoxy. I wiped down the wood with acetone first. The epoxy mostly worked. Enough to convince me that if I had used a better brand of epoxy (West, System3, Raka, etc) that I would have gotten more consistent results. I had a couple of joints that had to be redone with the 5-min stuff. I didn't try polyurethane glue, but I think it's probably worth a try on some scrap to see what happens.
You're absolutely right about that stuff being a bear to work. Lots of trips to the sharpening station ahead of you.
Doug -I sorta anticipated that epoxy would be about the only choice. The good thing is I decided to dado the door stops into the frame so the glue line won't be subect to a lot of stress. Just gotta hold it in the slot.I can't imagine trying to drive a brass screw into this stuff! I was amazed at what the chisel edge looked like after a couple chops along the line of the hinge mortise. Looked like I'd been pounding it into a sidewalk............
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Dennis, around here Ipe is also called Ironwood (mays landing NJ ) also called a few other names that can't be typed without editing.The stuff sinks in water, I was building an outside set of stairs. I was setup near a childs wading pool, one small piece fell in the pool and promptly sank to the bottom.Glad you got the hinges you need.
mike
Mike -Not only is the smell obnoxious, it's one of the dustiest woods to work with as well. Seems like the harder the species the more fine dust it creates. Dust evacuation system on, mask in place, cross ventilation fan running, start the saw .... in that order! (grin)...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
I've seen pictures of beautiful outdoor furniture but I'm not sure how anyone works the stuff. I'd think it would dull every tool in your shop after one pass. i'm sure you could use screws even in end grain - as long as you can get them in they'd hold like welds in metal.
Mark -Furniture made of ipe? Must be on Arnold's patio. On 1x4x10' stick of the stuff was about all my wife could pick up! (grin)Actually the carbide blades worked pretty well on the table and chop saws. Chisels don't bit the dust (pun intended) almost immediately. Won't even give using a hand plane on this stuff a moment's thought............
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Well, thanks to everyone that responded with suggestions and such with regard to putting screws into ipe. Got the little access door frame built and the hinges mortised and installed today. Went through two, count 'em, two countersink bits doing it. But once the screws bottomed out they held like all getout!
I'll swear, the next time I try this I think I'll see if the stuff conducts electricity and just weld the stuff together! (grin)
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
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