Replies

1. 
   Floss | Jun 16, 2006 10:35pm | #1

   Experience

   That is what exposes that which lies underneath. Otherwise, I use a block plane. No matter what kind, as long as the blade is relatively sharp.

   As far as your planing experience. It is hard to judge. I don't know how you sharpen and what you consider sharp. I use a #4 bench plane for most of my planing. I keep the edge finely honed with a keen edge.

   Lots of folks here rave about using low angle planes.

   I don't get it.

   Practice, Practice, Practice

   J.P.

1. 
   tomr2 | Jun 17, 2006 03:18am | #6

   Thanks JP - I get the practice practice practice part. I Im more interested though in learn, learn, learn. So I try something, if it doesnt work I try to figure out why. If I cant figure it out I ask questions, (thats different from asking for directions), make a change and try again. Somehow feels like practice but with intention. Never been too good at just repeating things hoping itll get better.

   Guess I was wondering about what sort of plane one might use in a sort of "sacrificial" mode. Seems like thats a scrub - but my intent is to explore wood of suspect origins rather than first step to flattening. So should a scrub in this mode be a woodie, an old converted #4, (or what have you) as you suggest. Feels like a new modern plane scrub plane would still be abused in this function?

   Was curious about what various readers do/use.

    

   Tom

    

    

1. 
   Floss | Jun 17, 2006 04:05am | #10

   I use a scrub for flattening, basically knocking off the high spots of a board. Then a #5 to get it close. My #8 will make it nice and flat, then a #4 to finish and make the board nice and smooth.You could use a #5 as a good all purpose plane. Put a slight camber on the blade and go for it. A #4 will work just as well. I use a block plane because I can put it in my pocket when I go to buy lumber and I don't have to worry about lugging it around or putting it down and forgetting it.Any old plane will do.If you have the wood in your shop and don't have a jointer then use a scrub to knock off the ruff stuff and a #5 to get a peek at the grain. J.P.

2. 
   Patto | Jun 22, 2006 06:31am | #17

   If all you want to do is look at the colour or grain in the first pass, there is a bloke here that used to keep a small scorp in his pocket. He ran a timber yard that only stocked sawn timber - machining was to order when you had a cut list - and the timber was in what the tanks would call a barn with a dirt floor. When you had your first pick you took it out on the grass outside to look at in daylight.

   Anyway, he would pull out the scorp and pull it across the grain - it was pretty good at revealing most of what you would later find in the board before dressing to size, and was convenient to the pocket when out at a yard.

   Dave

2. 
   pzgren | Jun 16, 2006 11:26pm | #2

   Tom,

     First, I clean the wood as well as possible with a stiff-bristled brush, to get as much dirt, etc., off the wood (if it's really, really bad, I use water as well, and then let the wood dry out again). I also check for nails and other metal with a stud finder and a magnet (I don't have a magnetometre yet).

     Then I use a scrub plane to start to flatten the board, followed up with an old Stanley #5. After that, I follow the usual sequence to flatten and smooth the board. What little abuse my planes take after cleaning the board is mostly absorbed by the scrub plane; there is very little in the way of scratches on my scrub, and it's done service to a fair amount of rough-sawn wood....

     Hope this is of some use.

   Cheers!

   James

1. 
   tomr2 | Jun 17, 2006 03:20am | #7

   Thanks pzgren - very helpful. Had thought about it enough to brush things off a bit but clearly that was not aggressive enough. This is good

   Tom

3. 
   JohnWW | Jun 16, 2006 11:32pm | #3

   Tom,

   The scratches in the soles aren't coming from the wood, they are caused by bits of sand, metal, or hardware embedded in the wood.  This is a common problem with stock that has been poorly handled or stored.

   Standing the boards on end ,and thoroughly brushing them down in both directions with a stiff wire brush, should eliminate much of the problem.  After brushing down the board, it doesn't hurt to inspect the wood under a good light for large pieces of trapped gravel.  I use a fine awl to dig into suspicious areas, you can feel hidden stones grate against the metal tip. 

   Ideally, wood for cabinetwork should never be stored in locations where it could get dirty or be walked on.  Also don't plane wood that has been sanded, the grit left behind from the sanding will dull the blade.  Cutting an inch off of each end of the board before planing is good practice, this removes gravel pushed into the board's end grain, it will also reveal hidden end checking.

   Unless it is an exceptional board, wood with knots isn't normally used for hand tool cabinetmaking because the wood around the knots is difficult to plane, and the knots themselves are hard enough to damage the blade or even scar the plane's sole and knots often contain grit and occasionally trapped stones. 

   John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine

1. 
   tomr2 | Jun 17, 2006 03:28am | #8

   Thank you John,

   Very helpful. When you're satisfied things are as clean as you can get them - knowing there can still be some abrasive flotsom lurking, what sort of first plane would you employ to clear the rough stuff to get at the grain? I assume itd be called a scrub, would have a wide mouth and curved blade? But how good a tool would you use? Do you have an ol beater set aside for this or is your cleaning sufficient that a dedicated quality scrub plane is appropriate? Old woodie, new ECE, modern LV or LN scrub or a converted older Stanley bench plane? What would you use?

    

   Tom

1. 
   DonStephan | Jun 17, 2006 03:37am | #9

   No doubt there will be some who have more than one scrub plane, but not many I suspect. If the board is that suspect for grit/... then it's firewood, not furniture wood. A "rough service" scrub plane with a nicked and dull blade will NOT be a joy to use - you'll spend too much time touching up a dull blade to make bad boards worth exploring. The grit would also quickly dull planer blades. If you insist on exploring suspect boards, perhaps a wide belt sander to remove the grit?

4. 
   highfigh | Jun 17, 2006 01:32am | #4

   If you really want to protect your good planes, you could find an old Stanley #4 and dedicate it to exploration. The iron will work for that if you set it fine and you won't have to worry about the damage done by sand, etc. I bought one that actually works really well and it was about $25.

   "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
5. 
   philip | Jun 17, 2006 01:35am | #5

   JohnWW has covered the question well, so I can only add that if you have compressed air then a blast with the air nozzle will help you see if if it is worth going to the next step.
   Also , when you cut off an inch or so from an end , you can see how much if any sap wood is there, and if the board is quarter sawn-check that no nails used to attach tickets etc are therebefore cutting!
   Also, it can be useful to plane one edge first rather than a face- exposes sap wood if there and you can see if the grain is running parallel.

   Philip Marcou
6. 
   Bolts | Jun 21, 2006 10:00am | #11

   Record tools used to make a tool called a (Box Scraper) for doing rough work on packing cases etc.It looks like a heavy duty plane or spoke shave head yoked to a long two handed wooden handle,if you can find one this would clean up rough boards at least to have a look at.There may be current modern equivalents.

   Regards John B

   You can make it fool proof but not idiot proof 

7. 
   BossCrunk | Jun 21, 2006 05:32pm | #12

   Wire brush the wood and then scrub it.  Run a hand-held metal detector to find buried nails before putting plane to wood. 

1. 
   tomr2 | Jun 21, 2006 06:32pm | #13

   OK, so after Ive done that what plane? If its to be a scrub, would it be a woodie like the ECE, or an old rehabbed one? How about the Lie Nielson, stanley 40 or  401/2, or Lee Valley? Is the nature of exploration (after cleaning to the best of ones ability) always fraught with risk from debris so that a plane used to explore is going to be abused and so should be a "beater"(reserved for this purpose). Or will one of these above serve just fine for the double duty of exploring rough board surfaces and initial stages of surface preparation?

   Thanks

   Tom

1. 
   BossCrunk | Jun 21, 2006 07:24pm | #14

   Get the ECE... it's the lightest (I promise you'll appreciate this fact) and happens to be the least expensive if that's a big deal.  Any dedicated scrub plane will work fine,  so there is no reason to agonize over brands.  Just get one.

   The scrub plane almost by definition is a 'beater tool.'  It can handle anything you throw at it other than embedded nails and caked on mud and sand (hence, the wire brush).  I would not hesitate to use it on any piece of wood for 'exploration' or for initial flattening.  It actually will blow through mud and sand but the cutter will dull quickly.

   You don't need two scrub planes unless you have a helper.  It is not a tool to coddle and ensconce in a Tiger Maple display cabinet. 

   I process all my lumber by hand, not just occassionally, if this makes a difference to you.

   You've officially reached your limit of questions you may ask about scrub planes. 

   Time to get to work.  :-)

   (When you start scrubbing any residual questions will be answered,,, I promise)

   Edited 6/21/2006 12:44 pm ET by BossCrunk

2. 
   derekcohen | Jun 21, 2006 07:33pm | #15

   Hi Tom

   I have a few scrub planes, and I like different ones for different tasks. I do all my flattening with a combination of scrub and jack planes. Most of the wood I use is recycled or rough sawn, and generally it is Australian hardwood, which is very hard.

   My first scrub was a converted horned woodie, very similar to the ECE. I no longer use it since I find it too light for hardwood - it tends to skip over rather than through the wood. I moved onto a Stanley #40. This is a sweet little scrub and, because it is also quite light, I reserve it for softer woods and cutting smaller areas.

   It was only when I started using the LV Scrub that I realised the advantage of a heavy scrub. This plane - larger, heavier and with a thicker blade - was significantly easier to use on hardwood. In fact, I wanted an even heavier, longer scrub plane after this. Mike Wenzloff will no doubt say something similar and rave about his converted Stanley #5 1/4 - and I would love to try this - but in its absence I converted a Stanley #5 1/2. The radius on this blade is the same as that on the LV. The extra heft just cuts through Jarrah and Karri with ease. One of my comments in the review I wrote on the LV Scrub was for a larger version.

   Some will much prefer a lighter scrub, and I will not argue with them. It is a personal choice. I do not spend all day hogging away at boards. I may do this for an hour or two on a weekend when I prepare boards. A heavy scrub plane suits my purpose. I expend less energy using its momentum.

   Regards from Perth

   Derek

1. 
   mwenz | Jun 21, 2006 09:19pm | #16

   Whew, glad my name hasn't been spoken ill of yet <g>. Of course, the "never use a converted plane crowd" nor the "what? you converted a #5 1/4 into a scrub" crowd hasn't shown up yet!

   I work in harder woods for the most part, from hard Maple to Bubinga to Cocobolo, etc. I find the heavier plane a benefit for these woods, as Derek does. I did find the LN scrub a benefit in the softer woods too.

   But like all else, it's a personal preference intended to please the user--me.

   If I had some easier to scrub woods to be done, I would most likely get the ECE and use it on the pull and push. A great advantage I think, being able to pull across say a near corner and push across the far corner without turning the board in order to remove a twist. Pulling doesn't work for me on harder woods.

   Take care, Mike