I’m about to install a short length (7 ft) of “classic” shape white oak hand rail against the exterior wall of my Northern CA house. The deck and final steps to the rear door (where the rail will go) is redwood….sealed to the usual redwood look.
I’d like to stain the rail to a color close to the redwood, but have been advised that I should first coat the bare oak with sealer. My original plan had been to mix up a stain combo to reasonably match the sealed redwood, then brush on at least four coats of Minwax satin finish polyurethane.
Given the exterior use, and the numerous coats of poly, is the sealer really necessary, or even useful ?
Thanks for tips and opinions
Replies
If you seal it the stain job won't be as sucessful. I'd go straight to stain.
Given that you plan to use multiple coats of surface finish, be careful not to sand to a grit over 150, as the smoother the oak surface, the easier the stain will wipe off the dense areas, leaving them too bright. Staining oak to a uniform color other than its natural one is difficult. If it were interior, I would recommend using a dye first to give a uniform background color, but the dyes I use are not for exterior use.
By the way, I agree that you don't want to put a sealer on the oak before you stain it. The stain will really bounce off it if you do.
Whoever gave you that advice, ask them why? There's a place in finishing for sealers and conditioners, but they often seem to be used automatically without a reason.
There does seem to be a lot of heavy marketing - with a consequent set of woodworker behaviours - that mean certain woodworking traditions include the multiple-coats-of-goo habit. Personally I think that a lot of very good furniture gets ruined by this, as it ends up looking plasticised, loud, unnatural or even cartoon-like - solely due to the numerous coats of this, that and t'other it's drowning in.
A lot of this stuff seems to arise because of a commercial push to invent and market stuff that's really spurious. There's also the marketing of the "experts" in goo-use, which entrenches these finishing habits as a norm.
In all my years (and hundreds of pieces made) I've rarely used more than oil, wax and (very occasionally) shellac. In rare cases a spirit dye (stain) can be applied without the wood looking unnatural. But in truth .....
..... there's no need for "conditioners", "sealers" and all the rest. Unless you want that plasticised, unnatural or cartoon look. Wood looks pretty good as wood. :-)
But it's all a matter of taste, I suppose.
Lataxe
Thank you all. The advice I got was from another woodworker with decades of experience, BUT it seemed to me to be counter-productive to the oak taking a stain. His contention was that the sealer would aid in adhesion of the stain. Given the grain structure of the white oak, that didn't seem to square with what I could see of the wood surface.
Also,yes, I have not sanded the surfaces below 120 at the this point.
Appreciate your help
Steve
Lat-axe...I absolutely agree with the underlying sentiment of your distaste for "goo". In my box work, and limited furniture making, I have only used oil finishes to let the wood be wood.
But, the rail in question is going outside, with a south and west exposure. Even in my Northern CA climate, the effect of sun and rain are brutal.
Without a strong poly coat, I can't imagine the rail would last more than a year. Even with, I'm not certain of its longevity.
Outside is more demanding of the finish. There are some goos that are more resilient out there in the weather but they can have the disadvantages of either obscuring the wood or being a PITA to replace when they eventually do break down (as they inevitably will).
Outside wooden stuff that you want to show the grain of is best made of the durable timbers, which includes some oaks. As I understand it, American red oak has little durability and American white oak has significantly more but is nowhere near as durable as most of the European varieties. Personally I always use teak or iroko for outside - and the old close-grain stuff got from reclaiming activities rather than the newer plantation-grown stuff.
Having a liking for seeing the grain and also retaining something of the colour, my own outdoor finishing regime accepts the need for refinishing every 6-12 months. Welsh weather is unforgiving of finishes so it tends to the 6 rather than the 12!
I use one of the outdoor oil finishes, made by the likes of Liberon, Osmo and others. They have a bit more resin added along with UV and mould inhibitors.
Inevitably I don't get 'round to reapplying the finish often enough, even though it takes only a rapid light sand with a delta sander at 180 grit (as a key) and a slap-on of another coat of finish. In the worst case, the finish has failed and the wood is a bit bleached.
After experimentation, I discovered that the light keying sand and the slap-on of another coat of finish can be the sandwich to an application of a stain or dye of the appropriate colour. This brings back the bleached parts whilst having little effect on the unbleached parts. Things can get bit mottled .... but it's an attractive mottle. The slap-on oil coat seals it in.
******
Many prefer the tough varnishes or similar. They'll last longer but tend to need complete removal when they do fail before a re-varnish and probably fixing of the bleached parts.
One last thing about oak, especially white oak. If you let the weather in (particularly the damp) before doing any necessary refinishing, the open pores of the grain will grow black mould in 'em. This is a real pain to remove and requires the whole wood surface to be sanded off. (Or chemically treated, but this is dangerous to the person). Even then, the spores are in there and will easily grow more mould in future.
I'll try and find/post some photos of my outdoor stuff.
Lataxe
Some photos of a bought outdoor table and chairs made of "teak". (Probably some other tropical hardwood of the plantation-grown kind with similar properties to teak).
We got these three & a half years ago for use at our holiday lodge. They came unfinished (photo on the patio, when new) but we gave them two coats of Osmo Bangkirai oil. This lasted 12 months in the Welsh weather before needing renewal.
For one reason and another, they didn't get refinished 12 months later. It was 18 months, by which time the Bangkirai oil has begun to break down, allowing some bleaching of the exposed wood. No rot as the timber is durable in itself.
Eventually we moved the table to our new home in Wales, refinishing with Bangkirai oil but giving the whole thing a "wash" in a reddish spirit dye before doing so. The pictures show:
1) two months after that refinishing and
2) five months after that refinishing (i.e. today, after heavy frosts, cold rain and the usual Welsh winter weather).
The finish is still waterproof but doesn't now bead the rain, as it did in the first three months after it's application. It'll last another two to three months then begin to break down, at which point I'll scuff-sand and re-oil, taking about one hour to do so. This will get it through spring & summer to the beginning of next autumn.
*******
Those two smaller tables are now eleven years old. They're iroko and have only been oiled twice, with boiled linseed oil, just after I made them and about 5 years ago. They've always been outside in the weather. If I scuff sand and oil them, the dark gold & brown colour will spring back to life. Iroko is tough stuff!
Lataxe
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled