Second Chance on Cabinet Master Clamps
sharptools | Posted in General Discussion on
Looks like some of the clamp buyers weren’t interested in woodworking. There are many Cabinet Master clamps listed on eBay now, though not at the special sale price…
Replies
Dang vulture's ain't they!
Imagine that.
Tom
Douglasville, GA
As Gomer used to say: Surprise, surprise, surprise!!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
SHARPTOOLS
I don't do e-bay. But if the price is $15 or under and they deliver at no extra charge, I would consider buying there. :>)
sarge..jt
Lots of luck on the free shipping, Sarge! Sharks like that will charge $25 shipping for the $15 item.
Funny thing is, eBay is very quick to reflect any change in supply or demand. If a significant quantity of these clamps show up on eBay it will drive the price down. The free sanders of which we spoke 2 weeks ago were selling for $30 or under on eBay at that time.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG
One of the stipulations I would have for buying off e-bay is low cost and personally delivered. That way I can see it is in proper condition before I pay. E-bay sellers don't have a customer service dept. I can call to get a replacement if the goods are damaged or not what they were described to be as far as I know.
In other words, I don't trust e-bay and would not likely buy anything over the computer from an individual. The clamps I bought from WC is the first time I have ever bought anything on-line, even from someone reputable as WoodCraft. Just a deal I couldn't refuse. It will most likely be the last time unless something like that comes along again. ha..ha..
Regards..
sarge..jt
I think you are missing out on some good deals with your stance of not buying from individuals over the internet. I just picked up a great spindle sander for $125 including shipping from Matthew Schenker of this very forum!!!!
Between e-bay and private purchases I have bought close to 100 items and have never been burned. I don't think I'm just lucky but rather think that the woodworking community in general is an honest bunch.
Don
You are probably correct that I miss out on some good deals with my stance. If Matthew Schnecker were the only seller on e-bay, I wouldn't hesitate as Matt is a first class person. But most of the people there I don't know. If they are a first time seller they have no e-bay satisfaction rating at that point. In essence, no track record.
Yes, I agree about WW being an honest and trust-worthy group in general. But how do I know they are WW? I could post a item, you pay and I skip. Is this likely, probably not. But there are those that know that something can be had for nothing and have no morals as to how they get it.
I just prefer dealing with someone I know or a reputable company. When I purchase from Tool-Crib, Lee-Valley, etc., etc. I call and speak to someone. I know what bottom line price, shipping, in or out of stock and the carrier before I give the CC#.
My wife sells about 60 to 80 items a month on e-bay. She has recieved an excellent rating on every purchase. I trust her, I trust Matt S. I can't afford to trust someone that is a first time seller with a high ticket item.
The bad news is I am very cautious, the good news is after 31 years I don't need that much. I did order a Veritas medium shoulder plane over the phone from Lee-Valley Monday. I spoke with JP. It is coming UPS and hit the Doraville, Ga. UPS terminal at 6:32 PM today. Out for delivery tomorrow and if all is not well, I call LV customer service.
OK, maybe I will take a look at some small ticket items. If anyone has a new Veritas shoulder plane posted at half price, I just got religion! ha..ha..
Regards...
sarge..jt
SO - you're the one who got the spindle sander - you just beat me out!!It's football time in Tennessee! Go Vols!!!!
TN-LG
Don't feel bad. Been on vacation this week waiting for my first on-line purchase (clamps from WoodCraft) to come. Should have been here yesterday or today as shipped from Ups zone 3 WV. I checked the WC web-site to have them track the confirmation # they had e-mailed me. They had also e-mailed me that they would be shipped. The number came up goose-eggs on their web-site track and wouldn't let me proceed there.
I called the cc# company and no charge had been made. Called WC direct and she ran the confirmation #. It showed they were canceled as sold out. Not according to my e-mails. No mention there.
I don't need the clamps that bad, but the price was great. My first experience with on-line shopping and probably my last. I'm surprised that the computer didn't e-mail me a $.50 token and tell me to call someone that cares. ha..ha..
Regards...
sarge..jt
Darn Sarge, sorry to hear you got the short end of the clamps! I was wondering about mine here it was Thursday and still not here. Had had them sent to my office and found out this afternoon that they had come on Monday and I have been out working and not in the office. But they saw me today and told me to come get these boxes out of their office. Once cut apart I could see the shipping lables to WC from adjustable co. they had shipped 2400 packages with 2 clamps per package and that was of all sizes. So don't know how many they had when they started the sale but it looks like they got a shipment of 4800 clamps at one time. Does that sound like a 5 year supply of clamps.....
Later ...Marsh
Marsh
At around $35 a pop, you are not going to sale them by the truck-load at full price. I think I read in their About Us section they have 71 (?) franchises nationwide. 4800 clamps divided by 71 is 64 clamps per store annually average. Divide that by 5 and you got 12.8 clamps sold over a 5 year period average per store. Sounds a little low to me, but most will go for the Bessey on name. Until they use a Jorgy. :>)
I already got some, but would have loved to have them at that price. The good news is, if that's the worse thing that happens to me in life I'm in pretty good shape. ha..ha..
sarge..jt
Sounds like that was just a shipment to one location. From what I "hear" on this forum, there are a lot of woodcraft "brick&mortar" stores as well as the internet presence. They may well even be shipping the internet sales from the closest location to cut down on shipping charges. Just a guess.It's football time in Tennessee! Go Vols!!!!
LabGirl
I called local (Atlanta) WC and they have them in stock. Full price as the sale is over. Ask them about that and they said the store stock was maintained for local walk-in customers the day of the sale. If I had known that instead of two e-mails saying shipment on the way, I could have gone local.
sarge..jt
Sarge, And others fer sure!
Me too, been there & done that. No charge has been put on my bank money card. I guess that conformation number I printed from the web page is worthless. I never even bothered to call Woodcraft after seeing no charge and reading many of the posts.
No big deal, like you I would have loved 4 at that price. I'll go sulk with the 4 K bodies I bought this summer.
Enjoy, Roy
Roy
I thought that might happen in your case as you stated you did not get the second e-mail saying they would be shipped. I did, but that proved to be meaningless.
If you have a chance to pick up or even look closely at the Jorgy, do so. I think you will see their merits upon comparing to the Bessey's. Both are great, but the Jorgy's have that extra touch in my view. Well, I don't see as well as I used to. ha..ha..
sarge..jt
Oh I'll be checking them out sometime. No question.
With my hopes fumbled I bought (2) 32" 3/4" black pipes the other day. Just, just to have something new. :o)
Gotta get around to ordering 4 to 8 footed Rocklers!
Enjoy, Roy
Roy
Good idea. If you haven't looked at the Rockler footed clamps for pipe yet (that may what you referred to) do. They are great. Sit stationary on a table and high enough the handle clears without having to pick the clamp up or extend it over the end of your bench or assembly table.
Regards...
sarge..jt
Oh man - I really don't like the sound of that - particularly because you DO have a local store and the sale was for both the local store and the internet. If you really wanted those clamps (being a newbie I have a very SMALL selection of clamps so it WOULD DEFINITELY be a big deal for me) AND if you still have copies of your emails, confirmation #, etc., etc. - I would VERY politely go back to my local store with this information and insist (again VERY politely) that they contact somebody at the regional and/or national level if necessary to get you your clamps at the sale price. Like you said, if you hadn't been lead to believe that your clamps were on the way you would have bought at the local store anyway.
I still think that Woodcraft as a "corporate entity" shouldn't have cancelled ANY orders until they had exhausted the supply of clamps they (the corporation) had "on-hand" the day of the sale. Now - any clamps received by them on Monday would be a different story.
Robin, Molly & Sadie (the Wonder Labs) "Wonder if we could figure out a way to clamp one of our rawhide chewies to the couch so we wouldn't have to get up and retrieve it when we drop it?"It's football time in Tennessee! Go Vols!!!!
LabGirl
I won't bother with the follow-up on complaint to get the sale price. I have ample clamps on hand and they are not necessary.
If I had been CEO of WoodCraft and informed of the problem the morning after the fact, this is what you could have expected. I would have immediately ordered customer service to offer a choice of a 10% courtesy discount coupon for any item or a 25% coupon for the Jorgy clamps as soon as they could be ordered and delivered from ACC. Even reducing the profit margin on the clamps would have put out most of the fire created by p*ss-poor planning on the companies part.
The compensation I recieved over the phone was, "I'm sorry and will report it to a supervisor". I'm sure their supervisors are on the verge of chronic depression worrying about it.
Instead of pursuit of satisfaction which I don't have time for, I will just take the business elsewhere. It was my first WC purchase (almost) and my last. I am not bitter or upset. I am dis-appointed an American business blew the opportunity to gain a customer and left many who don't have and can't afford the retail price holding a worthless confirmation number.
Hey, you need to spend less time at the lab and more time with those dogs. What kind are they, anyway? ha..ha.. I'm kinda dumb...
sarge..jt
Ooooo, Sarge, I'm so sorry about the clamps being cancelled! Bummer!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG
Not a big deal. Took me about 5 seconds to get over it. Would have loved 4 more at that price, but I have been blessed with around 80 with more always showing up each week.
My dis-appointment goes out to those just starting out who had the opportunity to get great clamps at a great price. My policy of not ordering over the computer has been solidified with this. First time....Last time ha..ha..
Check your e-mail and regards for a great day.. Maybe the rain will let up...
sarge..jt
As a previously non-Kbody-owner, thanks for the good thoughts! Sounds like you'll forgive me if I do a mini-gloat here.
My Cabinet Masters came yesterday!!!!!!!!! Whoopeeeeeee!!!!
My goodness, they're stout! Smooth action up and down, and I looked at the back of the fixed head -- has those "fins" inside -- looks like it must have a jet engine in there or something, LOL! This has been such a dismal year with respect to the WWing improvements I had planned -- new wiring in the shop, router fence, etc. -- but getting those 8 clamps (36" and 48") at a great price has pretty much made up for it. Color me happy.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG
Nothing to forgive. I am very happy you got them. This also gives me the chance to gloat, "I told you so". ha..ha..
Not only a Jet engine, but an after-burner if you need to get to the the action quicker.
BTW, something to watch for. After your glue has dried and you go to release the clamp, it may seem difficult to release if you have put major pressure on. You start fingering the "silver thingie" inside the release jaw to get it loose. You push, you pull and you get a screwdriver and pry like h*ll and still it stands firm. You check the dynamite locker and discover you have one stick left but you recently used the last blasting cap. You get P.O.'ed and wonder why you spent this much on a d*mn clamp that won't turn loose. You curse, you swear and you hate life and the people that designed this clamp.
You sit down with a cup of coffee and stare at the design of that Jorgy sitting on the table. You get up and walk straight to the clamp. You lift the maple handle straight up at 90* degrees and the clamp quickly releases as smooth as a "babies butt" You look up toward God and shout at full throttle!!!
This is the greatest d*mn clamp I've ever seen !!!!!!!
Now of course this was relayed to me by a freind that had just bought the clamp. I took one look at it and had it all figured out. Yep, you got to get up pretty early to fool "ole sarge". ha..ha..
ole sarge..jt
Too funny, Sarge! Can't wait to get myself into that bind (so-to-speak) -- just have to build a 36" x 48" bookcase or shelving unit, huh?
You had alluded to a secret releasing procedure in an earlier post, and when I pulled out one of the 36"ers and checked out the action, I noticed that the wood handle pulls out away from the body and was wondering if that might be "the secret." Yes! You'd think at the price, they could provide an owner's manual.
Surprised I didn't have dreams last night about using those Cabinet Masters on a little stack of scrollsawing stock, LOL.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 10/24/2003 6:04:59 PM ET by forestgirl
FG
You will see when you get them working. Just mess around a little and all will be revealed. As you know they are very heavy. Keep that in mind before the glue-up. With the rear foot you can set your clamps up with the jaws wider than the glue-up. When the glue has been applied, you just slide the jaws in position and tighten. I have started using Tite-bond Extend as it gives me an extra 6 to 7 minutes to get all in place. Small items don't present a problem, but if you do larger table-tops or panels it can be a race if you haven't got a plan.
From some pevious post I think you have got that down pat, but I thought someone reading might benefit. You got the 36" and 48". Do you have an assembly table that will handle those sizes. If not, you need to devise a plan (portable sawhorses with ply, etc.) before you get to a project. Down-time planning now will relate to avoiding wasted time latter.
Just lift the handle straight up for release and then you can freely pull the entire rear jaw away from the glue up. Not a big deal, but just a little tricky if it is not lifted vertical first. It looks like as soon as you loosen the handle, it would pull away. The bottom of the retainer grip is still on the bar at an angle gripping. Straight up releases it. Not a secret, but if you don't notice the inner workings; the tendency is just to pull the handle to the rear without going up. Ask my friend, that doesn't work.
Hey, we all have bad days.. ha..ha..
Have a good evening, m'lady...
sarge..jt
Buying on eBay certainly has its risks, but it's not eBay you're contending with -- it's the seller. Besides carefully reviewing their feedback and reading the description with a critical eye, they other thing I do to protect myself as an occasional eBay buyer is to only pay with PayPal. They have a buyer protection policy that is free for items $500 or less. Here's a small excerpt describing what it covers:
PayPal Buyer Protection covers:
Items paid for with PayPal and paid to the seller's email address associate with the listing (to make sure you pay the correct email address, use the grey Pay Now button found when listing closes on eBay)
Items not received at all or received significantly different than what was described in the listing
Items purchased on eBay - when paying for your item, make sure you select eBay Items as your Payment Type
Tangible items (physical goods that are shipped to you) only. Services and intangible items are not covered
Companies that I've purchased from successfully include Lee Valley, Woodcraft, Klingspor and Rockler. I check my bank account on-line every single day to make sure there are no unauthorized charges coming through, and in 6 years there's never been a problem. Nick had one bogus charge from a sports card company in Texas he'd bought something from several months before. Easy to clear up.
You are wise, Sarge, to be skeptical and cautious -- better than being naive and in a pickle!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
No problems in six years and you still check every day? That level of self discipline is awe inspiring, or frightening, I'm not sure which.
Nah, just want to make sure I don't bounce a check, LOL! Seriously though, since I started using the bank's web site, I find it incredibly easy to keep my checkbook balanced. I used to never, ever balance it when it was an end-of-the-month thing. Just HATED it.
Now, I use Quicken for the register, fire up Quicken and the bank site simultaneously, check off the checks that cleared yesterday, enter any Debit transactions, and voila! the balances match! If they don't, it usually takes only a couple minutes to find out why, instead of hours!
OK, yeah, I don't do it 365 days, but close.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG
Thanks for the advice and see my post to SoCalDon. I trust all the reputable companies you mentioned and have bought from all. I have a new shoulder plane coming from Lee Valley that will arrive tomorrow. I just like to speak to someone on the phone and know exactly what the price, ship method and when it will go out the door.
The purchase from WC on the clamps was the first over the computer CC# I had ever done. If I thought I would have had an opportunity to go local the next day and got them, I would have. I knew that they would be sold out by then. I know they have security, but I just don't like to post a credit card on-line. Probably no problem, but I have 2 that have limits about the price of a BMW. That could cost a bundle quick if intercepted by someone other than the party intended.
My wife sells on e-bay every day. She has recieved an Excellent rating on every sale she has ever made. A first time seller has no track record there. I just prefer to look before I leap. Would I look a "gift horse" in the mouth? Only when you don't see me looking. ha..ha..
Regards..
sarge..jt
Sarge, you left me off your "trusted" list, LOL!!! I have 100% positive FB too, but don't sell all that much any more. Your LOML must be a powerhouse! Cool.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jamie
She's smart enough to keep me under control, that probably says something for itself. ha..ha..
sarge..jt
Sarge: As Jamie says you got to Know what you are buying, know it's value, and most of all their Shipping charges! Early this year I bought I think 5 different lots of Jorgy clamps off e-bay. These were steel bar clamps or F clamps and hand screw clamps. All were brand new and I bought them for about 1/2 the catalog price, some even included shipping! So if I can buy "new" or even used in like new condition for 1/2 the catalog price, it's a deal to me. Also I don't think any of the 3 people I bought the clamps from were wood workers, seems they bought these at auction from the looks of some of the factory "case" boxes that they missed marking out some stickers on.
I bought my Performax drum sander from a guy in Calf and had shipped to Okla for about $100. over 1/2 new price. This one looked like new and came with 4 full boxes and 2 1/2 full boxes of ready to cut rolls of abrasives. Have got some Makita power tools and some BMW M/C parts also and think I came out good on all my deals, and I send Cashiers checks for all my dealings.
You just got to be paitent and know what it's worth to you! And if you don't get it just wait another one will come up for bid.
Happy Bidding
Marsh
Marsh
I have never looked around on e-bay as I have most of what I need after 31 years. I know there are some deals to be had, but I am just leary of 1st time sellers. I prefer to buy used local from club members that are selling for whatever reason. See my post to SoCalDon and FG.
I do know the prices of tools as FG can attest. I kind of keep up closely with that end of things. I will look around over on e-bay just to see what's "shakin". Like I said, I don't need a lot at this point. If I do need something, I usually find an old piece of junk someone's throwing away and re-design to suit my needs. Got a shop full of that stuff. ha..ha..
Thanks and have a pleasant evening...
sarge..jt
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled