HI,
I am starting a reproduction of a Victorian mahogany dining chair to match a set of 10 recently purchased at auction (No. 10 was not an original and my father has asked for a better reproduction, has bought the timber and is prepared to take the risk – it has taken me about 6 months to work up the courage)
The style is, I am told, an Admiralty chair which is basically a heavily contoured balloon back with turned front legs and a fully upholstered seat. There is a LOT of curve in the back and back legs which has made drawing it up a challenge and might result in a large quantity of expensive mulch.
One short step forward at a time.
My question on this occasion concerns the side and front rails.
The original uses a secondary wood for these pieces which is much lighter in colour and seems to be about the same hardness as pine but has a very even grain. There are moulded strips of mahogany glued to this (I assume steam bent before glueing) below the upholstery. What is the timber likely to be? The chair was almost certainly made in the British Isles given its source.
A much more complex question concerns a plan of attack for the back, but so far the answer seems to be ‘work carefully’.
Replies
The Brits used a lot of sycamore as a secondary wood ( I think they call them plane trees ). The secondary wood in a late 18th century English provencial Chippendale style mahogany chest on chest I restored a while back was pine (the dust covers) but the drawers looked like quarter sawn sycamore. I believe the drawer bottoms were also sycamore but I am suspicious of this because they weren't warped much.
Thanks, I have a source for London Plane from a mate that harvests street trees.
Plane trees are popular with city councils in Australia because they are highly polution resistant and seem reasonably weather tolerant (we are yet to come out of a huge drought)
You comment on a lot of movement - is this timber suitable for a primary wood as a substitute for what you call ash?
I don't know. American sycamore has a reputation for warping, especially in thin sections, so I've only used it for dovetailed drawer sides. I don't for sure know if the English sycamore is similar. Thinking about it a little more, I've also seen quartersawn brown oak as a secondary wood in Victorian furniture, but haven't seen it for sale in the USA except one or two boards.
Rob, the English sycamore (AKA; planetree) produces wood that is virtually identical to ours. In fact, it is believed that the London planetree is actually a cross between the Old World (Middle-East) species and our American sycamore.
The sycamore family (Plantanaceae) is an ancient family and on the eve of historical times it retained relic populations in the Orient, Middle East and North America. We have spread these species and commingled them in rather recent times (since the Age of Discovery), mostly in arboretums in Western Europe.
As for the characteristics of the wood, there isn't a stable one in the bunch.
Edited 8/5/2004 11:23 am ET by Jon Arno
Patto,
It's hard to say what your secondary wood is, from your description. In terms of practicality, what you want is something that is relatively easy to work (good from your standpoint), and that will hold tacks well (what the upholsterer will want).
Poplar would be better than pine, although not authentic for a British piece. Perhaps your wood is a soft maple? Ash is a good choice, I've worked on English antiques that had secondary wood that looked like ash, though it may have been something else- Elm, Yew? Any of you Limeys out there, help us out here!
Regards,
Ray
Ray, it would be hard to confuse yew with either ash or elm, since it's a very fine textured wood with a warm tan color...But it certainly would have been a local option for 18th century English cabinetmakers...and it has the right characteristics for chair rails and stretchers...Moderately light in weight, but very strong, elastic and tough to split or fracture when put under stress.
The problem with guessing about secondary woods used by 18th and 19th century English cabinetmakers is that British maritime power at that time gave these guys access to just about any wood in the world. Local availability helps to ID the species when dealing with common, inexpensive furniture pieces of that era, but with top quality cabinetry produced by masters like Chippendale it could have just about anything in it.
When we think Chippendale, we tend to think of his rococo style pieces, but he was a pretty worldly and adventurous Cabinetmaker. He also produced Oriental style pieces...to tap the upper class "tea house" demand for things Chinese.
Edited 8/7/2004 11:26 am ET by Jon Arno
Jon,
Thanks for your expertise--the only thing I know about yew, is that Robin Hood had "a stout bow of English yew" , I'm quoting someone here, but don't even know who that is.
Re: the use of non-British wood in English furniture, I've read that Virginia black walnut was sent to England in the 18th century, as well as (supposedly) New England white pine.
Speaking of Chippendale,funny that we tend to think of ball and claw feet as a Chippendale design feature, but he doesn't show any in the "Director"...
Cheers,
Ray
In repairing most British made chairs of that period Jon, i.e., Victorian, I most commonly find European beech used as the secondary wood. It's not soft and easy to work of course like pine as described in the original question.
On the other hand, it's perhaps quite surprising how much walnut I've come across as secondary wood in mahogany chairs if you're not a student of history. Once walnut had fallen out of fashion sometime in 1600's it seems to have been used quite a bit for this purpose. Slainte.RJFurniture
Thanks for the input from all of Yew.
I have both Ash and London Plane readily available from a mate who mills street trees for a living, also some elm but I dont think he would have the 70*70 stock for these rails. The choice will be on availability which seems to have driven the original, I only have to do one of these so workability is not such a big issue.
Does anyone have any advice about glues. I know I am going to have to face the staining challenge later as the colour is very different, therefore reducung the risk of blocking the stain is a huge factor for me.
Thanks again.
Patto, there isn't much to say on the glue front really. If you're attempting to make as near an exact copy as possible then you'll automatically reach for the hot hide glue. It's what the originals would almost certainly have been assembled with, although it's very slightly possible casein or fish glue might have been used.
Hide glue is also probably the least problematic to deal with prior to using dyes, stains, and other finishing products and techniques. Slainte.RJFurniture
Yes, you Old Worlders sure do get the most out of your beech...It's firewood over here...and you just hope it burns before it warps so baddly it breaks the grate. :O)
As for trends in British cabinetry, my jist of it is that oak dominated both the Tudor and Jacobean periods...then in the latter half of the 17th Century, with the arrival of your offshore monarchs, William and Mary, walnut became very fashionable.
The first recorded instance of the importation of mahogany into the British Isles was in a manifest dated to December of 1699...but this contradicts the apparent use of mahogany as interior trim in some structures that were almost certainly built several decades earlier. In any event, mahogany became the wood-of-choice for fine chabinetry during the 18th century and it was used heavily by the great masters; Chippendale, Hepplewhite and Sheraton. Although there is no evidence that Sheraton actually personally built anything himself. He was primarily a designer, but those who used his designs, both over there and here in North America in the early 19th century worked mostly in mahogany.
By Victorian times, and resulting from British colonial successes in Africa, Some of the African mahoganies (especially ribbon-grained sapele) became very popular in England.
Jon, you're dates seem to about match my learning on the subject. I'm replying because I spotted a typo in my earlier post. I said walnut fell out of fashion sometime in the 1600's. I meant to type that it fell out of fashion sometime in the 1700's when mahogany took over and became the wood of choice.
It seems possible to me that the secondary wood used in the chairs being discussed might be european walnut. It's quite different in colour and character to american black walnut being generally rather paler in the first place and perhaps a little softer and lighter in weight. Slainte.RJFurniture
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