Replies

1. 
   Dorsett | Jan 24, 2008 07:28pm | #1

   1. What effect does distance between machine and DC have on dust collection performance?

   2. How do you properly ground DC pipe?

   3. What are the advantages and disadvantages of bag and rigid filters? (And which does a better job?)

2. 
   blewcrowe | Jan 24, 2008 10:23pm | #2

   What's involved in converting from manual to automatic blast gates?

3. 
   WoodLess | Jan 25, 2008 05:57am | #3

   Many of us hobby woodworkers can afford a dust collector but not a cyclone.  I just bought a Jet 1 1/2 hp DC.  How about some tests of the in-line garbage can with cyclone lids we can use to improve out DCs functionality.  Do they work or not, or is it just a gimmick?  How do the various ones out there stack up against one another?  Any hints for setting them up and using them?

   WoodlLess

4. 
   cftrucker1977 | Jan 25, 2008 06:43am | #4

   I am considering a cyclone for my one man shop.  I have limited room, however I have room in the attic of the shop/garage for the actual cyclone unit to be installed. I'm hoping to drop the chip collection bin/barrel back down into the shop, (away from the cyclone) for easy access for chip removal.  The attic is not heated and I live in a hot summer/cold winter climate.  I know that this will suck out heat from the shop in the winter if ran for any length of time.  Will I have to build a insulated enclosure upstairs for the unit?   Also, will it be too much for the cyclone to pull the saw dust/chips up that high and operate as it should?  The ceiling in the shop is 8.5 feet tall.  I have hesitated doing this for a long time because I could not find anyone to give me a yes or no answer on any of these concerns.   Main sources of chips and dust are from a Unisaw, planer and drum sander.

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   Edited 1/24/2008 10:47 pm ET by cftrucker1977

   
   

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   Edited 1/24/2008 10:55 pm ET by cftrucker1977

5. 
   forestgirl | Jan 25, 2008 07:22am | #5

   Please address the "myth" of grounding DC systems.  Is explosion truly a potential hazard?  Don't we ground mainly to avoid the aggravation of static shock to our selves?

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 
   
6. 
   Daninvan | Jan 25, 2008 11:10am | #6

   Here are several ideas:

   My perspective is that I want my DC system to collect DUST. I care about my lungs, and less about the chips and shavings that I am not going to be breathing in anyhow!

   Why not go out to some real shops with DC systems, run a few boards through the machines, then measure the airborne particulate levels.

   What are US OSHA (or whoever) acceptable levels of airborne particulates versus standards in Europe, Canada, Australia, etc? How many CFM are needed at a typical tool (6" jointer, tablesaw, bandsaw, 12" tabletop planer, etc) dust collection port to meet this standard in a one or two car garage-sized space? Working backwards with a couple different 'representative' hobby systems (ie 20' of 4" PVC with a couple of turns, some blast gates, and a 5' drop of spiral hose to each machine) what kind of CFM do I need at the dust collector to provide this?

   Comparing specs from different manufacturers. I've heard some provide CFM specs for their machines based on no filters in place! how about measuring a bunch of popular dust collectors and comparing their real CFM at their intake port versus what they claim?

   I know my tablesaw and bandsaw spray dust all over me, even with the DC system I have. Is this a sign of a poorly sized system, or are shrouds inadequate?

   I hope I don't come across as a cynic. There is a ton of DC system info out there, it'd be nice to see some new data on it.

   Dan

7. 
   geir | Jan 25, 2008 03:42pm | #7

   Very good idea!

   Looking forward to the videos!

   1. How to design and build a dust collection hood for a stationary sliding mitre saw (chopsaw).

   2. My main concern when upgrading to a permanent dust collection system with ducting and blast-gates and all, for my one-man shop is: will it be strong enough? What is the most important parameter when choosing size: hp?, CFM?, ... Maybe you could suggest models of collectors for this need?

    

    

8. 
   flairwoodworks | Jan 26, 2008 06:46am | #8

   A dust collector only does so much.  How about tips on how to make machines more efficient on collecting dust in the first place.  You know... blocking gaps to create more suction, building dust hoods, downdraft tables...

   Chris @ flairwoodworks

    - Success is not the key to happines.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

9. 
   Tellekutan | Jan 26, 2008 09:18am | #9

   I think the biggest question on my mind is the economic vs. safety question regarding differing materials used in duct work. I have yet to hear of anybody's shop exploding because they used plastic ungrounded plastic pipe (though I have seen it in compressed air applications), yet there sure are a lot of cautionary tales out there. As a small business owner, I'd rather just keep on using shop-built and plastic fittings. I know the metal benders have to make a living, too, but it's just not worth it to me.

10. 
    questtools | Jan 26, 2008 06:21pm | #10

    Dust Collection!

    I would like to know when FWW is going to run a meaningful test on the most popular "Dust Collectors" sold?

    I read DUST COLLECTION DEMYSTIFIED in FWW and got rather frustrated with the information. Any of the popular equipment sold today can suck up the larger particles but what about the dust?

    Assume:

    •  there are really two types of machines used in dust collection by most woodworkers - portable 1 1/2 to 2 hp machines and cyclones
    •  that most people accept Bill Pentz's assertion that 800 CFM is the minimum air movement to provide reasonable air flow to the dust collector prior to dust particle separation
    • what IS IMPORTANT is the filtering ability of any dust collector to discharge "clean" air back into the work environment with minimal recycled dust particulates
    • that no dust collector is perfect and there is some dust reintroduced into the shop environment
    • all dust collector manufactures are invited to participate with those models they have on sale at the time of the call for participation

    1. Standardize the test with real life situations as Daninvan has described but after reading Bill Pentz, lets use 6" ducts to at least 4 machines. I quite frankly cannot understand why the industry test machines with open piping and not under actual real life conditions with at least 4 machines hooked up and with one of them running making dust! I would suggest a 10" cabinet saw, 8" jointer, benchtop planer and a routing table ALL hooked up with blast gates and one machine working & making DUST! :) 
    2. What is defined as harmful dust? Once FWW defines harmful dust (such as 100 microns, 10 microns or 1 micron) then a meaningful target at the discharge of the dust unit or filter can be reviewed! I think the recent rush of woodworkers from all over the world to group buy 90 + DYLOS air particulate testers (Kudos to Phil Thein) shows how concerned woodworkers are about their health! It seems many of these woodworkers want the lowest particle counter they can afford for their own safety - could I recommend 1 MICRON as your test target for particulate size at the discharge filter!!
    3. On the 1 1/2 to 2 hp dust collectors run a standardized high quality filter (i.e. WYNN, Farr or Donaldson-Torit) and compare the output of the dust particles leaving the top cartridge!In addition, record what true CFM is actually making it to the unit - if it can't produce 800 CFM with 4", 5" or 6" X 10 foot section of flexible piping to a 10" saw (or other normal equipment) then DO NOT INCLUDE THE UNIT IN THE TEST! I am being generous in that these are usually considered to be dust collectors moved to the machine and are not generally considered optimal in permanent ducted systems!
    4. Of the readily available cyclones marketed today, there is such a range of data thrown about that I believe much of it to be hype and not factual. These are considered to be used with permanent piping installations in shops and most would be targeted towards the smaller professional shop or hobbyist type installations in a 1 or 2 car garage . So again firstly create a real life scenario i.e. where a 10" table saw, 8" jointer, benchtop planer and router table are connected with blast gates using 6" piping of your choice. Those machines that CANNOT provide 800 CFM at the CYCLONE SHOULD NO BE INCLUDED IN THE TEST! Test the dust particle discharge at the filters looking for the particulate size you deem to be harmful dust. TO be fair again please standardize the test filters (i.e. WYNN or FARR or DONALDSON-TORIT) so it is apples to apples!!! Surely no reputable cyclone producer would argue that these filters are of poor quality! :)
    5. As in all real life and scientific tests situations, be fair to all machines. Produce a clean room environment between test units allowing air particulate levels to drop to an acceptable "norm". Run 2 separate readings to determine the CFM meets the acceptable 800 CFM minimums BEFORE particulate testing is measured at the discharge filter.
    6. Complete these test folks and I will buy extra copies of your magazine in addition to my regular subscription (both online and web) because I would give a copy to every woodworker I know!!!!

    So again my question for FWW and Roland Johnson is:

    I would like to know when FWW is going to run a meaningful test on the most popular "DUST COLLECTORS" sold?

11. 
    davidbrum | Jan 26, 2008 07:22pm | #11

    How about some strategies for modifying a single stage dust collector to keep fine dust out of the filter.  

12. 
    Al from Unionville | Jan 27, 2008 06:31am | #12

    I would appreciate ideas for collecting /controlling dust during sanding operations