If this subject has been thrashed out previously in Knots would someone please tell me.
Today I carefully re-ground the knives for my Griggio ,er, jointer and after a quick hone to remove the wire edge set about replacing them into the block- and this is the problem: there are 4 blades 14 inches long, each exactly the same length as the block, so there is nothing sticking out to get a grip on, and virtually no space between the block and the bearing assembly. There are no jacking screws- just push-up springs and each chip breaker has 6 bolts. The setting gauge originally supplied with the machine was a joke made of aluminium-quite useless, so I have no actual setting gauge. I use the traditional method involving a block of wood placed on the outfeed table and setting each blade so that the block of wood is moved forward the same distance for each blade at both ends- this is accurate after one has done it a number of times, but is very slow and back breaking- takes me about 45 minutes on a good day. The difficulty comes when one finds that a knife has been tapped down too far-how do you raise it other than slacking off the bolts and starting again? Can anyone vouch for the accuracy and efficiency of that gauge that has legs and a magnet? I made a version of this but it was a flop.There is no room to fit jacking screws- this would be the answer. I need something that pushes each blade down an equal distance both ends- and it can’t be too soft or the knives just cut grooves. In most cases when tightening the pressure bolts there is no alteration to the projection, luckily, but only if I have snugged up said bolts a bitty- which means that those push-up springs do nothing.Today I got it right first time, but it’s not always like that- often re-do it the next day. With a 4 knife cutter block if you can get all 4 knives right the result is sweet indeed. Who knows of a better way or of a good setting device?
P.S. The heading should read JOINTER knives not planer knives.
Edited 5/3/2005 6:58 am ET by mookaroid
Edited 5/3/2005 6:58 am ET by mookaroid
Replies
I set the knives in our 20" RGA jointer in a leisurely 20 minutes with a special fixture that is easily made with a block of wood and a $15 indicator with a special tip. Will post more later. I get them within .0005" easily.
Are you tapping each knife down and watching a dial gauage? Have tried this- but the problem comes when you tap too far .Look forward to your picture(S)
I see from your profile that I am talking with the Right Guy....
Had the brain wave of dialling up Griggio Italy- bingo up comes a web site with options to click for the required language-guess what? It's all in Italian whatever buuton you press. Tried to send a e mail msg.- not sure if it has happened ....
Edited 5/3/2005 7:04 am ET by mookaroid
Contacting Griggio isn't going to help. I typically always proceed by putting the knife in about !/32" high and tapping it down. Most of the jointers I've worked on have no adjusting screws so I don't even use them even if they are on a cutterhead. The key is to put a bit of tension on the gib screws and not let the knives go low. You might find the knife setting tools at interesting. My gauge is much better. http://www.woodtechtooling.com , http://www.northfieldwoodworking.com/gauges/gauges.htm
The springs are the clue to how you should set the knives.
Leave the four inner locking screws loose and then adjust the two outer ones to be just loose enough to let the knife move up and down with as little extra play as possible. Now use a jig that pushes the knife down, against the springs, to the proper height of the knife on both ends of the knife at once. You can't do this with a jig that only works on one end of the knife at a time.
Holding the knife in place with the jig, lightly tighten all of the screws, starting with the two outer ones. Once the knife is held in place, remove the jig and fully tighten the locking screws. Repeat the process for the remaining knives.
If the knives move when you tighten the screws you need to locate and eliminate any burrs or rough areas on the knives, the slots, the bars, and the screw heads. A small amount of lubrication on the screw threads and heads will usually help to eliminate creeping as you tighten the screws. Once everything is working smoothly it should only take a few minutes to set each knife.
Hope this helps, John W.
I do the same as John, I would only like to add that I have a little lifting tool make from a small allan wrench with a sharpened end on the short leg.I have been thinking about making one of those setting templates from some polycarbonate and a router trammel. What is the diameter of the cutter head on yours?
Thanks Rooty- but there is simply no room for a "pick".
The cutter head diam. is 5 inches.
John W is talking of springs and that straddling gauge- not accurate enough for my liking.Anyway I threw it away....Am sure that this was not a Griggio approved item.
Good reply there.. Sounds like you have set more than your share of cutters...
Edited 5/3/2005 10:54 am ET by Will George
Yeah, I've changed the blades, at least once, on just about every small to mid size machine made in the last 50 years.
John W.
If you want to try magnets, give this a try.
I bought 4 rare earth magnets and epoxied them to 3/16 thick plate glass. They are powerful enough to penetrate the glass and hold the knives in position while you tighten the outside gib screws. Of course make shue you have the knives at top dead center while using the magnet/glass jig.
I also have the commercially available magnet jig BUT 4 rare earth magnets are stronger than the commercially available jig.
Also make sure your wrench head shape does not lift the knives when you are tightening. For my Delta and Powermatic, I had to gring away some of the wrench's head so it didn't torque the knives up while tightening them.
Are these Griggio machines available in the US? I've never heard of them before. Curious about them and would like to learn more.
Hello Bird,
I would assume that Griggio is available in the States- they make industrial standard so the average home woodworm may not be familiar with the name.
Mine has a table length of just over 8 feet- so things get straightened out without too much effort.
You can see Griggio by firing up "http://www.griggio.com". You will see the usual web page thing with a choice of languages- you will see that you can choose any language as long as it's Italian....
Not sure if they would work but local Big Box has something like 100 lb magnets for a 'song'.. Over glass should work.. However they are quite large so???
Mookaroid,
A blades change on my 15" Grizzly takes me 10 minutes, using the springs feature underneath the blades in the blocks and the standard setting jig, which came with the machine. The longest part of the job, is taking all the covers off and replacing them. The first time I did this, I used a dial gauge as a check and it was within 0.0015".
These are expensive, but you can see a similar jig here or try their spare parts department and perhaps you can get the standard one supplied with their planer at a cheaper cost.
jellyrug,
How many blades does your Frizzily have?
That kind of setter can't work for me- there is no room. I am talking about a SURFACER (sorry, Jointer).The Griggio has a mouth as narrow as possible - I think to reduce noise and increase safety.
I am about to make a deal that should take all pain out of this procedure for me- you will see some pics soon.
Edited 5/4/2005 6:30 am ET by mookaroid
Yep, my apologies, I missed the jointer part and thought it was a planer.
I use the same system on my 4 blade jointer, less than ten minutes here, but I'm less talented, compared to you, as I only have 8", as compared to your 14". :-)
Be interesting to see what you come up with, but the quickest easiest way, as posted above by others, is to have an accurate jig, that pushes the blades down into the block, against spring tension, with the gib bolts slightly nipped, to allow movement against spring tension. The jig contacts the block at two points and the top of the blade.
If you don't have space to do this, I would use a dial gauge with a flat point, using the same principle. This will take longer though.
Herewith pics of knife setter completed in about 3 hours.It is attached to the Infeed,with the tdi on the Outfeed. It works well- now can get to half thou or so ,easily and quickly.
Might make another to save changing from side to side.
Cost? zilch, made from stuff in my shop.Preferable at this stage to buying the magnet thing.
Sorry, on checking, I suspect that a huge file is en route-also would've liked not to have sent two of number one.
Working out how to do this could take as long as making the setter, and my supper is waiting.
O.K-at least have deleted the unwanted one and now I give up on the downsizing-the only time I have seen a choice to "make smaller" is when sending emails, so maybe Forestgirl will oblige (again?)
Edited 5/5/2005 3:06 am ET by mookaroid
Edited 5/5/2005 6:13 am ET by mookaroid
Mookie:Resized photos of your jig. Nice job!Leon Jester
Hi Leon,
Thanks for re-sizing those images. I have not yet worked out how to do this when on the forum: sending e-mails yes I take up the option without a problem. I've been at the "manage attachments" stage, but that's as far as it's gone- where have I missed the boat? If I program camera to select 640x480pixcels will this help?
I think I'd rather be on the next"project" which is to grind my knives utilising the sliding table of my shaper. Up to now I've done this on my lathe , but the dust is bad news for it, although the result is good.
Mookie, I think the 640x480 pixel setting is a good start.I'd give it a try, if nothing else, shoot something and put it up as a test to see how it works.Regards,Leon Jester
What is the function of the gold device next to the dial indicator?
Thanks,
Don
Donc,
The "gold device" is a chunk of brass . It serves to i)lock the cutterhead at the right position 2)move the knife down by turning the knurled knob- the dial indicator having been referenced to the out feed table then tells me when to stop 3)give a quick check that the tables are co planar.
It can be fixed at either end of the knives by screwing into the holes I had to drill and tap in the in table.
No more hit or miss taptaping , and very easy and accurate.If you have a milling machine it is simple to make. I used brass because I was in a hurry and it is easy to work fast.
I suppose that a down side of loading down-sized files is that clarity is decreased?
Hey, guy, I missed this thread the first time around, didn't see your plea, sorry. Also, I've kinda lost track of where you are on the learning curve for pictures, but if you're still struggling and need a quick bail-out, you can always email the picutres ("Make pictures smaller") to yourself. Too funny.
Great jig, by the way. I'm on the verge of needing to change out my jointer knives, so handy ideas like this are quite pertinent.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Hi Forestgirly,
Re pictures: at present I find it safer to take "small" with my camera...How come the Uncle Sam's place seems to be lagging behind with Broad band etc?
When you change jointer knives give me a blow by blow account as I am interested in this , especially accuracy and time taken.
Well, the primitive nature of my connection has more to do with my budget than anything else. With Nick working out-of-state and supporting a separate residence there, we're skimping on telecommunications! When he retires at the end of the year, I'm thinking we'll get broadband here at the house and also use VOIP (voice over internet protocol) for the phone too!
Don't hold your breath on my knife-change, I'll be putting it off for awhile, I'm sure, LOL!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
hey, you can get free voip with skype.com.....gotta have broadband though. Aloha, Mike
mook
I have a 1957 Northfield 12" HD jointer, and I bought their setting dial guage that r3ddd ? is talking about. It is excellent. I also have a 4 knife cutterhead. I put the blade in just a little high, and tighten just enough to be firm. Then, with my dedicated rubber mallet (which now has slices across the head) I tape the blades down until the guage reads "nuts 0". I've gotten really good at it, and my jointer absolutely works fantastic, now that I'm using all 4 knives at the same time, as intended. I just changed my knives 2 days ago, and did it in 18 minutes. For me, that's as good as it gets.
My boards are so flat that they actually create a vacuum effect on the outfeed table. Best tool I've ever purchased.
Jeff
My indicator fixture has served me well for many years. The key is to have the proper tip. I typically use a 1/2" convex button tip and also hae a 1/2" flat tip as well. Something similar with a block of wood and a $15 indicator from Enco and a button tip for $5. http://www.wttool.com is another good source. Incidentally my fixture is no longer being made comercially. I can straddle the head on planers and flip the gauge up or down to set bedrolls, feedrolls, pressure bars and such. On jointers such as Olivers, Crescent, etc the tables slide apart so I often straddle the head or can go off the outfeed table. I never use the adjusters on the cutterheads as I've gotten proficient in setting knives for many years.
I start by having the knife about 1/32" high with slight pressure on the first and last gib screw. I usually stick a small wedge on the end of the cutter to keep it top dead center. On a 20" or larger I use the middle screw as well. I then work it down .010" at a time and when I get within .010" of where I want to be I go a few thousandths at a time. When I get it to the money I lock the screw down a bit tighter in the respective postion so when I zero in the next part of the knife it won't move the last section that was set. This way I never have the knife go lower so I never worry about raising the knife again. I've used all the jigs out there including the glass technique and the magnetic jigs. The quick set fixtures and springs supplied with many machines work fine but not everyone has this and when I'm being paid to do knives I want to do it in the most efficient, accurate manner possible.
Mookaroid,
You can use two straight magnets, one at each end of the blade, most of the magnet on the outfeed table and the other part of the magnet to set the knive while tightening.
Harbor Freight has good magnets from India for about $3.00 each. They are useable as come, but had these rectified at the machine shop for even better.
-mbl-
Thanks , but believe me Ihave tried many things for this particular machine including magnets-some very strong as found on engineering stuff:they do not address the difficulties I outlined in previous posts.
However, some replies to my post had theeffect of catalysing some grey matter and I made the item pictured on a subsequent post.An additional benefit is that I have now got a grip on posting pics of suitable size.
The forum is a good thing!
Should Be to ALL
Yo,
Timely thread for me...approaching 7/8 through a large and complex project and I had a hunch to look at the knives...time to sharpen...
Putting them back in I reviewed this thread and read my manual...right...been so long I forgot about that jig that came with my 15" Delta...straddles the head and there are set screws in the head to adjust the knives out and with finger pressure back in.
I was more meticulous than usual about tightening because one screw had actually worked loose...
Anyway everytime I tightened my trigger finger would lock on me...have to say I was a bit distracted and frustrated, and thinking it might be time for surgury...after this job.
As I was tightening the last nut with a wrench that really should have been replaced I slipped off the nut and my right pinkie was gashed by the knife...blood everywhere for a while.
Safety is constant vigilance! A bit stiff this morning so I soaked it with salt and hot water...been a long time since I've been that stupid...shoulda woulda coulda...
I read with interest about the dial indicators...what are they worth?...I figure with the jig I'm within 10 thou...works for me...
anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Best regards to all...work safe...constant vigilance...
silver
sounds like you need glcosamine for the finger locking thing....it sure worked for me a couple years ago and I still take for the increased mobility it gives. I dont have time for surgery...... Aloha, Mike
Aloha,man...good advice...I'm looking for some...could you be more specific as to what to buy.
I'm not really into surgury...but a bit desperate at this point.
Are you saying it cleared up your trigger finger??
silver
You can find glucosamine/chondroitin at any drug store. Our Costco (warehouse store) sells there own brand and it's not too expensive, and formulated so you only need to take one pill twice a day (some of the others involve several pills a day!).
Don't put the surgery off too long if you really need it though. Just get it over with!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Thanks forest girl-
I was eyeing the dog's glucosamine this morning and thinking about taking a hit but I'd thought I'd wait til I go to town this afternoon to work on a 18'6" multi media centre install...
Surgery is a last option for me...too invasive...trigger finger has been bothering me for a few years now but worse lately...a buddy of mine claims wheat grass juice cured his...go figure...
I'll try glucosamine...as you recommeneded...funny-I tried the powdered stuff we have for horses...kind of filled me up with gas...if you get my drift
have a great week-end- up north it's known as two-four weekend-Victoria Day
cheers,
silver
I'd rather not "get your drift" in this particular instance, LOL!!! Careful taking those animal-intended OTC things. They probably don't have the same quality controls human stuff does.
RE: treatment for trigger finger. Have you seen a hand specialist? Have you tried a cortisone injection? The thing about these tendon-related things, they don't like to be ignored and continually aggravated.
My only experience with hand surgery was bilateral carpal tunnel surgery in the late 1980's. They have the technique down now to where it is much, much less invasive and the recovery time is incredibly fast. I wouldn't be surprised if the same is true of the surgery for TF.
I'm reading this summary:
This is the kind of thing I wouldn't allow to get worse (personally) for fear it would pass the point of being completely curable. Just my humble opinion. Just the other day, I overheard someone telling a friend how glad he was that he had gotten the surgery for this. BTW, the above quote came from this page from the American Society for Surgery of the Hand.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Thank-you for the info!
I've heard 6 weeks is the recovery time and so far I haven't had 6 weeks...but you are right on...and I really appreciate your fresh perspective...it's easy to let it slide...or lock
I did see a hand specialist and he wanted me to wear a hand cast for 6 weeks. I think it lasted 1 day...that was back in 2000-time flies when you're having fun.
Cortisone didn't seem to help...I've just been putting up with it...I'm taking your advice to heart-these hands are dear to me...like I tell my students...if safety sounds boring, try buying a new eye or hand.
best regards,
silver
Are you saying it cleared up your trigger finger??Thats what I'm saying. Mine used to make a noticable popping noise and it hurt at times. I have no problem now and dont want to quit taking the glucosamine. I have triggered tools for over 30 years and spray woodwork which requires a lot of triggering and I have no discomfort or extra noises. It worked great for me. Aloha, Mike
Aloha!
Thanks!
off to town to buy some!!
cheers
silver
This is not for the faint hearted.
The spring mechanism must be in good condition. You can use the magnetised setting gauge , a dial gauge or the cheap piece of aluminum supplied by the maker to set the cutters.
Mark Duginske made a very good DVD that contains a piece on this subject.....Mastering Woodworking Machines....Taunten Press.
Regards from Africa.
Pine
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled