Replies

1. 
   BG | Dec 02, 2002 10:55pm | #1

   Mike,

   My sister just put in a new kitchen.  I was kinda shocked when the cabinet maker built the carcas and ordered the doors from a manufacturer.  I was also shocked when I saw the quality of the doors...fabulous, very thick...and a little heart wood snuck in, he replaced it no questions asked.  Not to disuade you, but add up all the limitations your dealing with ..equiipment, space, tools, finish space and technique..access to quality wood...neighbors listening to the nashing of teeth..

   anyhow, good luck

1. 
   MikeInHawaii | Dec 03, 2002 11:25am | #3

   BG, Thanks for wishing me luck.  I don't have a problem with the neighbors and my woodworking so that isn't an issue.  The access to quality wood is only an expense here (we are in Hawaii, not Satrun) and I have already located the wood I need.  Like I said, it is the expense here in Hawaii that drove me to take this on.  Ordering doors was going to cost nearly 4 times the amount of making them and I actually enjoy working with wood.  I haven't done this kind of work before and thought I could get some advice from someone with experience.  Hence the post.  Thanks again for the vote of confidence.  Mike 

2. 
   greenebelly | Dec 03, 2002 05:55am | #2

          Mike, I am assuming that you really want to do this yourself so I will go off this assumption. Shaker style is very plain but heavy on FINE craftsmanship. Dovetailed drawers, etc... Look at as many books ( the Library) as you can. There is a tremendous amount of pictures and literature out there. Door faces are plain, eg. no routered edges, and very simplistic hardware. You can gain a "shaker" look bye keeping it simple and using simple quaint hardware. You can use a raised panel door for instance but just use straight boards for the center instead of the raised panel. It might not be shaker per say, but you can get the look you want by keeping the same idea in mind. Just keep it simple and read read read. You will need to compromise especially with modern kitchen appliances etc... Just keep in mind that you want the "look" , so have fun and keep the patience....

1. 
   MikeInHawaii | Dec 03, 2002 11:31am | #4

   GreenBelly, Thanks for the reply.  I was thinking of the simple shaker "look" as you said in your reply.  I am looking at a flat plywood panel that has a maple finish on it and a simple frame made from hard maple stock.  Have done some reading and am sure ther will be more to follow.  You were also right about me wanting to do this.  Not only will it save me loads of money (to buy more tools with no doubt) but it is something I enjoy.  I am retired from the Navy and am a full time grad student at the time.  Last break I built a roof over my lanai (to keep my shopsmith and projects dry) and I am tackling this job during my Christmas break.  Thanks again for the advice.  Aloha Mike

1. 
   greenebelly | Dec 04, 2002 04:03am | #11

          If you don't mind how the back of the door looks or painted in the back try laminating maple to masonite. That way its cheap and you get exactly what you want.

                                                                 just a thought

1. 
   Sancho | Dec 04, 2002 05:30am | #12

   Mike there are some really good books on the subj. One is made by jim Tolpin on makeing traditional cabs. He covers the various aspects of cabinet making  as well as the various details for period cabs including shakerAt Darkworks we measure twice cut the cheese once

3. 
   CRAIGCONEY_M | Dec 03, 2002 08:06pm | #5

   Mike,

   One bit of advice I would give is to make sure your panels will have the same sheen/finish as the frame, assemble before you finish.  I am finishing a shaker style kitchen in hard maple with milk painted beadboard- you wouldn't believe the process this takes on the doors,  add to it the cleint specified a WB semigloss finish for the frames.   I won't complain about raised panel doors again.  Glad I got  the job at T&M.

1. 
   MikeInHawaii | Dec 03, 2002 08:53pm | #6

   Thanks Craig.  The plywood I am looking at for my panels seems to have a clear acrilic finised look.  My thought was a few coats of clear acrilic on the stock maple would be close enough.  I realize that acrilic won't give much depth to the grain but it shouldn't yellow either.  Any other suggestions?  Thanks again for the reply and advice.  Aloha Mike

1. 
   CRAIGCONEY_M | Dec 04, 2002 01:11am | #10

   I am using Varathane WB poly semi gloss.  I get plenty of depth and lustre from the maple.  First I sand to 180 grit using a finishing sander, raise the grain with water, then sand to 220 grit using a sanding block.  I spray on the poly with an hvlp gun, misting the first coat, then apply 2 decent coats, sand lightly using 320 grit wet or dry paper, then the final coat- usually the final coat does not take much. I've used this method on the door frames and carcasses.   We're installing the cabinets on Friday with what doors I have completed, then finishing the display cabinets & remainder of the doors by Christmas. 

   I'm curious, is the plywood you are looking at laquered apple?  That is the only finished ply available around here. 

   I also use an adjustable Amana Quadraset bit to cut my tongue & grooves.  I cut my grooves first then adjust to cut my tongues due to the non standard thickness of the brush painted beadboard. 

   Craig

   P.S. One of the reasons the client spec'd out this finish is that it is not supposed to yellow.  

   Edited 12/3/2002 5:16:23 PM ET by craig

1. 
   MikeInHawaii | Dec 04, 2002 10:40am | #13

   Craig, thanks for getting back, your advice is of great value to me.  The plywood I looked at is finished maple, available finished on one or both sides and I believe it is around 41.00 a sheet at a wood supplier here on the island.  As you can imagine fine wood is expensive here but I found hard maple stock at 5.10 BF and that is a great buy.  I was wondering how much does it go for on the mainland these days?  Anyway thanks again for the help.  Aloha Mike 

1. 
   CRAIGCONEY_M | Dec 04, 2002 08:13pm | #16

   Mike,

   Hard maple runs me about $4.20/BF less than 100 BF, $3.85 > 100BF, approx $5.20 BF 10"& wider, recently got 150BF on sale for $2.99BF.  A sheet of 1/4" maple ply here runs me about $25 unfinished, 3/4 shop maple $37, A1 procor ~$80 per sheet.   Looks like you have a pretty good source at those prices on the island.   

4. 
   charlesm | Dec 03, 2002 09:01pm | #7

   Mike,

   We make a router bit set that was engineered specifically to make "Shaker Style" doors with plywood panels. It's item# 99-036 and works well for lots of tongue and groove applications.

   Charles M

   Freud, Inc.

1. 
   MikeInHawaii | Dec 04, 2002 10:42am | #14

   Charles I am going to see if I can find the bit set on your web site.  If I am looking in vein please let me know how I can get more info on the bits.  Thanks to everyone for the replies.  You have all been a great help.  Aloha Mike

1. 
   charlesm | Dec 04, 2002 06:02pm | #15

   The 99-036 is a new set and is not on the freudtools.com website yet. The December issue of Popular Woodworking has a great pullout article on making Shaker style doors with the set if you can find a copy. If you will email me your address I'll be happy to mail you a copy of the article. A google search found these sources:

   http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=freud+99-036

   Charles M

   Freud, Inc.

5. 
   TomCalisto | Dec 03, 2002 09:41pm | #8

   MIKEINHAWAII,

   As Charles M. has suggested I would go with the Freud router bit set. I recently built 33 "Shaker" doors for a client using this bit set. I am not really set up for this kind of production work but I was able to build these doors in a reasonable amount of time. I believe that I averaged just over 25 minutes per door including glue up. My doors were built with plywood panels and a mullion. The secret to building these doors fast and accurately is first and foremost an accurate cut list. Create the cut list on a spread sheet program and plug in the necessary formulas to allow for the tongues on the rails and mullions. The spread sheet will give you the lengths of each component. Normally I would dress the lumber myself but for this I had my hardwood supplier do these operations for me. He planed and ripped some 400 linear feet of stock for me. The cost was minimal. With lumber and cut list in hand its now time for crosscutting the pieces. A miter saw with an accurate (scaled) stop is handy. I also set up 2 router tables so that I could have one for each operation. My method was to cut the material to length, run the tongues and then run the grooves on the router tables, cut the panels to size and glue them up. While one is in the clamps start on the next door. After all the doors were built I ran them thru a wide belt sander. I was very pleased with the outcome both in the economy of time and the final appearance.

   Good Luck,

   Tom

1. 
   mfg_king | Dec 03, 2002 09:59pm | #9

   I'm with Charles on that one, I have that exact set of bits, they're Adjustable Tongue & Groove Cutters and I love them. I've made several doors with them and it couldn't be any simpler. You won't be disappointed doing your own doors.