Replies

1. 
   philip | Jul 21, 2006 11:03am | #1

   Ofcourse-either your woodworking scope increases or you just get things done bigger, better and faster!
   Anyway since you already have a router and table, if you get a shaper AND TOOLING you will soon see that one is a flea and the other is a good dog. And what is the dog known to man as?

   Philip Marcou
2. 
   ring | Jul 21, 2006 04:25pm | #2

   Like all machine decisions, it depends a lot on the type of work you do.  I made hundreds of frame and panel doors using a router table, before I got a Mini-Max shaper with sliding table to take over the job.  All of a sudden I found myself asking "How did we ever do without it?"  

   Can you get by with the router table?  For many things, yes.  But if you find yourself often pushing the limits of your router for speed, safety, and repeatability, you probably need to move up.

   DR 

3. 
   MRGreer | Jul 21, 2006 05:02pm | #3

   Interesting question, I've seen this discussed before and the answer is extremely simple.  It all depends on what type of projects you intend to make over the next several years.  A 3+ hp router in a table is not a small shaper and a small shaper is not a router turned upside down.  They perform different tasks as well as some of the same ones.  They can both put a decorative edge on a board with the proper bit or cutter, the shaper can do this on a larger (thicker) board as the cutters can be larger.  The shaper with more power can handle tasks larger and faster than a router in a table.  But a router in a table has it's own advantages, more shapes are available, smaller bits can be utilized and you can make plow cuts or plunge cuts on a router table that are impossible on a standard shaper.

   If your projects are smallish (mostly 4/4 stock) and your not a professional shop where you make the same cuts over and over, I think the Porter Cable 7518 mounted in a table is a good choice.  Add a lift for another $250 or so and your flexibility with a router is mighty good.  Smaller less expensive cutters with more variety available and a lower initial investment is what drives me in this direction.  Plus if you already have some raised panel cutters and such you already have quite an investment in a router set up.

   The ideal shop would likely have both a shaper and a high hp router in a table to handle those things a shaper wasn't intended to do.  But how many of us have the money or room for the ideal shop?

4. 
   pins | Jul 27, 2006 01:23am | #4

   When building a log home with all my lumber except the logs I decided to make my windows and doors.

   I bought a Taiwan 3hp dual speed, reversable, sliding table shaper and a set of cutters from Freeborn. The doors and windows more than paid for all the costs of the machine and the cutters. Now I just leave it covered in my shop with a panel raising bit in the collet and other than the 6 or 7 square feet it uses I have no cost.

   Previously I bought a 1 1/2 hp shaper from the Griz and it had less power than a good router in a table. I traded it to a friend of mine for installing some facia boards and putting a lexan roof on my little greenhouse.

   So, if you can justify the cost of a good shaper buy it, but don't bother with a small one.

   John

1. 
   frenchy | Jul 31, 2006 12:12am | #10

   pins,

     I'll go along with your statement.. I bought my first shaper as a 1 1/2 Hp Jet  ( I think a clone of the Grizzly)   I then bought a 3 HP Grizzly and wow! what an improvement!  Previous efforts with routers left me shaken and nervious as often they would topple over doing the bigger stuff I commonly do.  That plus the small size of their tables always had me balancing both the router table and the work,, not exactly a way to feel comfortable.

    

     

    

    

1. 
   pins | Jul 31, 2006 12:52am | #13

   I never had the 'tipping' problem with a router table because the one I use the most is cut into the wood portion of my table saw extension table and it ain't (Hello Cafe!) goin' nowhere. I have an insert for a Ryobe 3 hp router and for a little B & D 1/4" router, so I can use both in the table.Originally I bought a speed control for the Ryobi because the panel raising bits in that router looked like a helicopter to me and it scared the crap out of me. With the large bits in the shaper, no problem, works like a charm!I did make a little horizontal router table that also has one of the B&D 1/4" routers in it and it just lives there. I haven't bought a new router in almost 20 years except for a PC laminate trimmer (But some of the new PCs look very enticing).John

2. 
   cscwem | Jul 31, 2006 01:37am | #14

   i call ####...i've used the grizzly 1-1/2 hp shaper with a bearing and 2" straight cutter for template cutting and with a panel raising cutter and there was power to spare.  that little machine has balls for days...

   the only downfall i saw to it was the smaller table opening and the 3/4" max spindle.  also the table could be bigger, even with the extension wing it is a little on the restrictive side.

   I used a friends for a few years before i decided to buy my own, and i seriously considered getting the same machine...i elected to go with the larger 5hp shaper and power feeder so i could use larger cutters on a 1-1/4" spindle and stack cutters for complex profiles and use a taller cutter for template cutting...

   i still say about 3 of the 1-1/2 hp machines set up for making frame and panel doors would be a great idea.

   sorry you had a bad experience with yours, but the 2 that i have used have way more power than any router...

5. 
   cowtown | Jul 28, 2006 04:52am | #5

   I got my own perspective on this, and it is that unless yer doing millwork constantly in a shop setting, the router is the best way to go.

   You use routers anyway, ergo, bits is transferable from router to router. Notso with a shaper

   Router bits are more commonly available at reasonable prices, Shaper bits are less diverse in selection, not commonly available, and the price is higher, as is the cost of custom ground bits.

   I can take a router table on site if needed, not so with a shaper.

   I sold my smallish shaper quite some years ago. Took me 6 months to do it, and I took a beating. Routers, otoh, are substantially easier to sell when you want to upgrade etc.

   Ya, I know big millwork shops need shapers, and they are a joy to use, but on a strictly economic basis up to small industrial use, routers got em beat in my mind

   Just my thoughts

   Eric

1. 
   TrueGentleman | Jul 28, 2006 02:37pm | #6

   I jhave seen a few shaper that take 1/2 inch router bits??? Are these shapers no good???  I can't stand my router table.... I thought Of getting a new one or a shaper that takes the 1/2 router bits as will as the shaper bits???? 

   Rich

1. 
   Napie | Jul 29, 2006 11:42pm | #8

   I have  an early 1950's vintage Craftsman 1/2" shaper, (new motor and stand), and I love it.  You are not going to hog with big panel raisers but it is great for edge profiles and tounge and groove work.  I did all the 3/8" cove and bead cuts for a friends laminated strip boat he built, that was a lot of red cedar, a power feeder would have been nice.

1. 
   Mach70 | Jul 31, 2006 07:44pm | #15

   I think I have that same old shaper. I've successfully used full-size panel raisers by making an oversized laminated MDF top with a large cutout that allows me to bury the big cutter. Gives me the willies to run such a large cutter on top of the workpiece.Even though a shaper is a large powerful machine I find myself much more relaxed using it than a router table. It might me the lower speed/less annoying sound.

1. 
   BruceS | Jul 31, 2006 09:35pm | #16

   Please explain.  Gives me the willys to run such a large cutter on top of the work piece.  This statement has me worried.  You arn't running the panel between the bit and the table are you ??Work Safe,  Count to 10 when your done for the day !!

   Bruce S. 

    

2. 
   Mach70 | Aug 01, 2006 03:38am | #17

   No way! I made the new top so I could run the bit up from underneath the workpiece.

3. 
   BruceS | Aug 01, 2006 04:35am | #18

   Thanks for relieving my worst fears.   But there are some that would try it.  That could get very ugly real quick.Work Safe,  Count to 10 when your done for the day !!

   Bruce S. 

    

2. 
   frenchy | Jul 31, 2006 12:22am | #12

   TrueGentleman,

          Most smaller shapers will have adapters to use router bits,  I had one with my 1  1/2 hp Jet shaper.    What I found was that the bit didn't remain as sharp as        long as a shaper cutter  would.  Now I use mostly hardwoods like white oak etc.  so maybe it's differant for softwoods like pine..

    I still have my router but I use it free hand now rather than as a power head for an adaption which is what a router lift table is..

    

2. 
   mudman | Jul 28, 2006 04:48pm | #7

   I agree with your position on the router vs. shaper issue. I do, however, dissagree about shaper cutters having fewer profiles availible. If you look in a good catalogue you will find that every router bit profile is availible in a shaper cutter and that there are many profiles availible only in shaper form. I regularly need profiles that can only be purchased in a shaper cutter. Again I do agree that a shaper is only logical if you are running lots of doors or mouldings. Another way I look at it is that if you need a shaper you should also need a power feeder.Pardon my spelling,

   Mike

   Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.

3. 
   frenchy | Jul 31, 2006 12:18am | #11

   cowtown!

        I hate how frequently you need to sharpen  router bits compared to shaper bits.. I also hate how tippy a router table is compared to a decent shaper..   I've ever not been able to find a profile in a shaper bit that I could in a router bit..  I pay about what a good quality router bit would cost for  my  shaper cutters because I use Grizzly  cutters.  Grizzly cutters seem to last several times longer than router bit do  even when I use more expensive router bits..

    I haven't ever used the more expensive shaper cutters because I can't justify the differance in cost..

1. 
   cowtown | Aug 01, 2006 10:12am | #19

   Frenchy was rambling on about shapers....Alors mon ami....you must be correct, peut etre. I am unfamiliar with the grizzley brand of shaper cutters. Not suprising, cause none of the industrial suppliers I frequent carries very little or no stock in shaper cutters, while they do stock a plethora of router bits. How do these shaper cutters "plunge cut", and will they do a good job in routing plunge cut profiles in 6 or 7 ft MDF pantry doors? My shaper will neither plunge cut-that damn nut gets in the way...., nor has a table size capable of handling that size of stock. That must be the reason it sits in storage.And just what is the secret to trucking a shaper to the worksite....I must be missing out on some secret of "shaper management" cause I just really don't see the ergonomic, economic, supportability, or availability advantage of shaper cutters vs router bits, and I ain't seen a clue that any rational exists for nigh on 15 years .so...what the heck has I missed? Routers has done it all for me for all that time. C'est dommage.....Eric

1. 
   joinerswork | Aug 01, 2006 04:33pm | #20

   All,

   Oh boy, shapers vs. routers, the newest slapdown since pins or tails.

   Why must it be one or the other?  Is there some code of molding monogamy that says I can't have a shaper (actually two)  and a router (okay three) as well as, gasp, a few molding planes?  Oooh, and a molding head for the tablesaw.  Confession: my shapers swing, er...spin, both ways, they have shafts that have experience with, I'm ashamed to admit this, router collets! I have even made molding by scraping it with a bit of steel clamped in a guide (horrors!), and- cover the youngsters' eyes- carving it by hand.  There, all my shameful secrets are out, I'm not a molding bigamist, I'm a molding slut!

   Funny that various proponents are saying, "well, can your router shape this?"  "How can you get a shaper to rout this?"  Relax your inhibitions boys and girls, diversity is a good thing.

   Cheers,

   Ray

1. 
   Mach70 | Aug 01, 2006 07:55pm | #21

   LMAO! Well put.

6. 
   BruceS | Jul 30, 2006 02:55am | #9

   Loaded ?  How much and how often do you plan on using the "table" router or shaper.   I have a router table and use it often,  but I would not give it up for a shaper because it is more suitable for some applications. But I could use a shaper in addition to the router table and it would have infeed and outfeed power feeders.

   As to cutter prices,  prices vary.  You can get Stile/Rail sets for the shaper at a better price than Router bits since they are easier to Mfg. and you can expect to get more sharpenings out of them.

   Work Safe,  Count to 10 when your done for the day !!

   Bruce S.