While I often use power tools , I have no idea how they really work, or how to fix them if the don’t, which will be quite evident by the following questions.
My Delta shaper, which was made when FDR was in his first term, won’t start. It hums and the lights dim a bit like it is drawing a load ( everything turns easily by hand so the bearings are okay). I’m thinking that it is the capacitor. If it is the capacitor, what would I need to know to order a replacement (Horse Power, Amps, Voltage etc), and what if any hazards are there when replacing it ( obviously I would unplug it before working on it)?
Thanks for any help.
Rob Millard
Replies
It does indeed sound like the capacitor. The motor name plate should specify the appropriate capacitance. If not, take the rest of the information on the name plate to your electrical supply house, and they should be able to look it up.
Can you get the motor going by turning it on and then spinning the shaft between your fingers (no cutters installed!), sort of like spinning a top?
-Steve
Edited 11/6/2007 11:15 pm ET by saschafer
I took the motor off the machine and removed the end cap, so I could blow the dust out and there was a ton of dust in it. Unfortunately that did not get it to run. I was able to get it started by spinning the shaft with my foot. I could hear the centrifugal switch disengage, so that is not the problem. I also looked at the capacitor and I have ordered a replacement ( surprisingly inexpensive).
I have attached photos of the shaper and a shot of the motor.
Thanks to everyone who offered help.
Rob Millard
http://www.americanfederalperiod.com
"I was able to get it started by spinning the shaft with my foot."
That's a good sign that the capacitor is the culprit.
However, I can't get this image of you, standing on your left leg, with your right foot up on the shaper table, trying to spin the shaft with the sole of your shoe, out of my mind.
-Steve
Even though you can hear the centrifugal switch click, that doesn't mean that it is functioning electrically, the contacts could be dirty or burnt and not completeing the circuit, a very common problem. You will have to pull the switch out to properly service it.
John W.
>> You will have to pull the switch out to properly service it.It's not too bad a job on this motor to open it up and dress up the contacts with a points file (available from Sears), but the cap may well be the problem. Any job inside a motor of this particular design is somewhat fiddly.Given the age and high quality of this motor, I would strongly recommend new bearings. A shop might be your best bet, but I can provide pointers if you want to take it on yourself. I recommend replacing with extended-race bearings similar to the originals. They're readily available, but not as likely to be on the shelf as modern 6xxx ones.Impressive website by the way!Pete
Edited 11/9/2007 12:52 pm ET by PeteBradley
Pete,
I would appreciate any help you can give me; I want to get the shaper running because I have a Christmas project I need it for.
I have no idea what a centrifugal switch looks like, so I will take the motor apart and see if I can identify it. If I can't, I'll post a photo of it and ask you to educate me.
Thanks for your offer of help, and for the comments on the website.
Rob Millard
The link below shows the rotating part of a centrifugal switch. Sometimes this part will slip on the shaft.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/4X422
The link below shows the switch assembly. This should give you an idea of what to expect to see. Their are many types of centrifugal switches and with an vintage motor I have no idea what the switch will look like.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/4X418
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
Edited 11/12/2007 8:42 am ET by JerryPacMan
Edited 11/12/2007 10:37 am ET by JerryPacMan
Pete,
I had a 50 - 50 chance of taking the correct end apart, but I picked the wrong one. I have attached a photo of my finger pointing to what I believe is part of the centrifugal switch. I also believe the spring load part to the right of my finger is part of the switch. Since I took the wrong end apart first, I did not get to see exactly how the switch end went together, but I think the part my finger is touching would go under the u shaped piece of metal to the left of it. Under that piece of metal is what appears to be an electrical contact point, that would work together with the similar contact point on the piece I'm touching. Now that I have it apart, what do I do to the contacts?
Thanks again
Rob Millard
http://www.americanfederalperiod.com
Rob ,
To clean the contacts use a fine file like for cleaning ignition points / spark plugs or emery cloth or simply fine sandpaper . Try to not round off the shoulders while maintaining the original shape .
Just try and reveal a smooth and shiny surface for the contact points.
dusty
With a machine of that age, it might be a good idea to pull the motor. Check the wiring, switch box, cord, for cracked insulation, debris, loose connections and abrasions. I'd take it into a repair shop and have them take a look. The only difficult part is realigning the motor and drive pulleys. A small straight edge and a few loving words should do it.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I agree. An ancient shaper may have a healthy clot of fine sawdust in the windings. I would blow it out with an air hose, test for start by spinning without a cutter in place. If it is that old it likely does not have a thermal overload protection or an interlock.In that case, I would drop the motor and take it in to be refurbished. You might consider having the cap and the windings done, given the age and your need for a reliable tool given your work.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Rob ,
As an owner of old iron including perhaps the same vintage Delta shaper as yours , they don't usually just go bad for no reason .
Does it run on 220v? or 110v ? Does your shop happen to have the old style fuses or a modern breaker box ?
If the old style fuses are being used and it runs on 220 it is possible one of the fuses is bad , it is even possible the breaker is shot as well .
sometimes just taking apart the capacitor and blowing it out if it is the external type can cure the problem , take a look at these things . As has been mentioned the switch may be clogged or otherwise shot as well .
let us know
regards dusty
Rob, is it possible for us to see a picture of the motor name plate? Mine is an ancient model as well- it has brushes, no capacitor.
If we know what type of motor we are talking of then we go from there...
Does the motor look like this one?
Rob,
Given the motor's age, the most likely causes are a stuck centrifugal switch, a bad capacitor, or any number of possible failures in insulation and wiring connections, all inside the motor. As suggested, it is time to pull the motor and take it to a motor shop, or simply replace it if the shaper doesn't require a specially configured motor.
A switch failure is possible, but less likely given the symptoms, unless you are running three phase. If the switch is as old as the motor, the switch and its wiring should be replaced, or at least serviced, at the same time the motor is being repaired or replaced.
A problem in your shop wiring causing the symptoms is even less likely, but not impossible, but I would check the motor and switch first.
John White
Yestermorrow School, Waitsfield, Vermont
I'm guessing it's a little later than FDR's first term. You can find out the build year here:
http://www.owwm.com/Delta/VintageProject/Part1.asp
You don't mention if this is the HD shaper, but if it is, it has a Repulsion/Induction motor. Some of the light duty shapers will too. There is no cap and no centrifugal switch. There is a centrifugal shorting mechanism for the brushes. Philip's bullet motor looks a little like it but the shaper motor is flatter on both ends.
There are several possible causes. I just solved this exact symptom on a R/I motor by cleaning out carbon from between the commutator bars. This is not a terribly difficult motor to work on, but it's valuable enough that you want to take it to a good motor shop if you're not very comfortable with opening it up. Some motor shops won't touch it, keep looking.
If this is a cap start motor, the most likely cause is dust caught in the centrifugal switch. Try blowing it out with compressed air. Vintage small Delta cap start motors are evil to work on, definitely not ideal for a first timer.
A picture of the motor and nameplate would help. A trip through http://www.owwm.org would also be worthwhile.
Pete
Edited 11/7/2007 8:40 pm ET by PeteBradley
Pete,
Thanks for the information. It sounds like a good cleaning may put it back in working order.
I don't recall ever seeing a serial number on the machine, but I know it was made before 1938 and I think it was purchased in late 1936 or early 1937. I used to have a receipt for some cutters, that was dated 1938; I can't find it, but I did find a 1939 letter and the little book titled, Getting the Most out of your Shaper, which was printed in 1936 (see attached)
I'll take a photo of the machine Thursday and post it, maybe that will show what kind of motor it has.
Rob Millard
http://www.americanfederalperiod.com
Wow, with documentation no less. It sounds like you've got a light duty shaper like this one:
http://www.owwm.com/PhotoIndex/Images/413-C.jpg
It should be very simple to tell what motor you have. If it has something about the size and shape of a Red Bull can on the side, it's cap start. If no can and a little mechanical lever at the top, it's R/I.
Considering its history, you should consider posting some pictures of your machine(and perhaps a shot of your letter) on http://www.owwm.com.
Pete
Rob
You've already been told this, but just for confirmation, I had an old Unisaw that incurred a similar starting problem. I went through the trouble of changing the start capacitor with no results. I then took the motor off, and took it to a local electrical motor shop. The old timer there opened it up, blew it out ( you wouldn't believe how much saw dust came out of the windings) and plugged it in.
I sold that saw 8 years ago to a good friend, and it still runs perfectly in his shop today.
Jeff
Rob.. Take that motor off and take it to a local motor repair shop..
Most are old honest folks that will fix it or tell you what to get to replace it!
Just me...
OK.. Single phase?.. If 3-phase may be a fuse or something
Edited 11/8/2007 7:21 pm by WillGeorge
Edited 11/8/2007 7:23 pm by WillGeorge
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