just getting started— looking at several sharpening systems for chisels and hand planes, and lathe/turning tools— I’m thinking about the wolverine system for the turning tools, and veritas MK.ll honing guide and wetstones for the chisels and other blades– would love some advice from the veteran woodworkers–
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Replies
I am not a veteran, and have only rudimentary sharpening skills. However, in keeping with the gavel-icon by my name, I feel compelled to forewarn you: fasten your seatbelt, gird your loins**, this thread will probably be a rollercoaster ride!
Nothing gets people fired up more than a sharpening thread, LOL!
[**To gird your loins during the Roman Era meant to draw-up and tie your lower garment between your legs as to increase your mobility and agility. ref: Real Armor of God website about which I know nothing]
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 3/5/2009 9:40 pm by forestgirl
Jamie , I was trying to bring him in easy .
Tom.
Tom,
Perhaps someone should start a thread on "gird loining".... <gr>
-Jerry
No gird loining here .
Good idea. I never know how the stars are aligned over our more "colorul" members and how they might respond, LOL!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
That near miss from the asteroid threw all the alignments off. Must recalculate.
................................................
Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
laffffffffff--- well, thanks for the advice-- loins are girded--- shield in hand, I am ready to stand grounded---
Bill
Bill Do a search on this site there is no shortage of info on this topic, and may I say Welcome. A good book or should I say my favorite is Leonard Lee's book on Sharpening.
Tom.
Tom, thank you--- I'll look for this book---
Let me point you to a very good on-line source for sharpening info.
http://www.antiquetools.com/sharp/ The author of the article was my teacher
when I took classes at the Craft Student's League in New York City. He was able to get students from a fresh off the coarse grinder edge to obtaining a edge one could shave with (or what ever other test was appropriate) over the course of the first evenings class. With no jigs for honing. And this was with many students who had never even touched a chisel before in their lives.
wonderful--- thanks Steve--- I'll check it out--
Thanks. Good read!
And I must say that you learned the art very well, if the surgical instruments you sent me under the quise of wood chisels are any indication. <VBG> I love them more each time I use them.
Thanks,Harry
Following the path of least resistance makes rivers and men crooked.
I'm confused (so what's new) but I'm not the one who sent you chisels, sharp or dull.
Sorry...now I'm confused. (Nothing new here, either.)
Harry
Following the path of least resistance makes rivers and men crooked.
I'll bite.
Buy Leonard Lee's book on Sharpening.
Man. Here's another opportunity for the purists and fundamentalists to throw stones at the liberal sharpenists!
What's your budget?
Since you mentioned the Wolverine, I guess you are planning on an electric bench grinder of some sort. There are several to choose from. If you have the coin, a Tormek is nice but arguable priced proudly. I do have experience with it and it is quite nice. I bought mine used and have forgotten the price I paid.
Greg
•••••••
Exo 35:30-35
Greg-- thanks for the ideas---
Bill
Bill,
The Wolverine system is a great way to sharpen your turning tools. I use 120 grit Norton wheels, altho' you will hear 80 and even coarser. Also some controversy over 1750 vs 3600 rpm, altho' I think that the slow speed is what more folks use, me as well. You just rig up a stop block, set your angle on the leg, and away you go. A great source of info on this is at http://www.thompsonlathetools.com/sharpening.asp Doug also has GREAT tools.
I use some set up blocks, really just pieces of plywood, bottom goes into the v-arm on the Wolverine, face fits against the wheel. I use one for bowl gouges, one for detail gouges. I can try and take some pics in you need. The small tool rest will work for skews and scrapers, and the V-arm does parting tools, roughing gouges, etc. All in all, a good system, methinks.
As to "flat work" tools, I use waterstones. 800, 1200, 4000, 8000, and then some diamond paste on a scrap of MDF. A honing guide, at least for me, is a must.
I also have a Tormek with all the bells and whistles, but find myself only doing knives and scissors on it, with a bowl gouge occasionally. I do seem to get a much better burr on a scraper with the Tormek, and will sometimes leave the tool rest set up for it for extended periods.
Hope this helps. These topics generally will solicit quite a few comments, so good luck in your decisions. Let me know if I can provide further info.
Rich in VA
Rich
What makes the Wolverine system better than your Tormek?
How do you create a burr on your scrapers with the Tormek?Greg
<!---->•••••••
Exo 35:30-35<!---->
Greg,Not sure if the Wolverine is "better" than the Tormek, just a bit easier/quicker for ME to use. Since there are two "stations" at the dry grinder as opposed to one on the Tormek, I can use one side for bowl gouges, one for scrapers, etc. As I said, if I'm doing a bunch of bowls, I'll set up the Tormek for scrapers, as I think I get a better edge/burr than the dry grinder. My method for this is to set one of the flat tool rests at the "front" position, so that the wheel is turning away from the edge, forming the burr. You have to keep some down pressure on the tool, as the wheel wants to lift it away from the rest, but it's a steep learning curve, especially with some practice. It's not the way that's shown in the book, but it works, at least for me. Now if I had TWO Tormek's (!), I would probably do the bowl gouges as well, just a pain to switch it back and forth all the time from gouge to scraper. It's not that I'm in that big of a hurry, I guess I will have to admit to some laziness here...........If I bought another one of the universal supports I could do the gouge at the front and the scraper at the rear without having to change the set up, altho' I dont think the scraper would be as sharp as it would be on the front.Again, not sure if there's a "better" system, as I would have to factor in price, speed, ease of set up, use, etc., before I pronounced either one as The Holy Grail of Sharpening............. I honestly do not believe that there is ONE system that does it all, regardless of the hype. Rich (whew!)PS The Tormek was a gift, and I doubt if I would have ever bought one for myself. It's a great way to get a consistent grind on a knife before putting it on a waterstone, and I LOVE it for scissors, since I do about 20 pairs a month.
I have no clue where my mind was as I read your post. When you said scrapers, I thought hand cabinet scrapers.I'm with you.I have never sharpened a pair of scissors. I will have to try it. I bought a box of previously owned Tormek jigs on eBay (most of which were never opened by the previous owner.) I think I got a scissors jig in the lot. I consistently use about two or three of the jigs.Greg
<!---->•••••••
Exo 35:30-35<!---->
Rich-- thanks so much for taking the time--- your combination of wolverine and wetstones seems to be the overall consensus--
Again, can't thank you enough--
Bill
Bill:
As you have been informed, nothing brings out the crazies more than a thread on sharpening! Get twelve woodworkers in a room and you'll have at least 20 opinions on the best way to sharpen your thingies.
My advice is to start with something cheap and simple. You can always up the ante as you find out what works for you - but if you drop a grand on a tormek and stones, you are pretty much done.
I didn't have anything left over from my tool budget for sharpening, so I was forced to go with a cheap solution. I use two double-sided DMT Dia-Sharp bench stones going from coarse to extra fine. Total cost around $80.
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=226
I have found, with a little practice, that I can put a reasonable edge on my chisels and plane irons.
They are basically diamond coated steel so they are almost indestructible and you don't have to worry about flattening them.
You could augment this with a Veritas Mark II honing guide for another $80 or so - but it is not necessary.
Please understand that every other poster will vehemently disagree with this advice! In fact, by tonight, I might have to disagree :-)
Good luck!
Hastings
Aww crap, here we go…
Ok, I’ll be the Luddite here. NO JIGS, none you don’t need them, period. Strong opinion I know but it is just how I feel. Especially when it comes to turning tools…. I just do not understand how, if you have the manual dexterity to turn the wood freehand that all seems to go away when you bring the tool to the grinder???? It is the same thing, freehand it, it’ll make you a better turner to. You have to grind so often when at the lathe that jigs just slow you down.
As to plane irons and chisels, a cheap high speed 6” grinder with a 60 grit wheel and a hard white Arkansas oil stone is all you need along with a bit of practice.
napie,
nice going.
eef
lafffffffff----- thanks for the advice---
First the short answer:
>veritas MK.ll honing guide and wetstones<
Yes get them. I like them. I use them all the time. Get the cambered roller as well.
Now the long answer:
In my view it comes down to what do you want to accomplish with your "sharpened" tool :
It is possible to go literally rub it on the sidewalk, put it in your plane or what ever and hog off hunks of wood. For a little while. There will be a great deal of effort involved and the surface finish will only be good enough for hidden surfaces.
If you learn to sharpen "by hand" with out a jig you will be the master of the neighbor hood handy men. It may take a long time to learn.
Drill bits and pocket knives are harder to learn to sharpen than plane blades.
How much do you want to protect the metallurgical integrity of your tools. If it is a stanley recently made what ever sharpen it how ever; there isn't much damage you can do that the factory hasn't already put into practice.
If it is a fine Japanese laminated instrument of creation you might just want to put that baby in the hutch next to the fine china plates until you get up to speed here.
Do you enjoy sanding ? Do you expect to produce a final surface that you will not need to sand ?
Do you want a finish so flat that a reflection of a painting in the table top will not look distorted ?
Do you really get your enjoyment from the way your unspeakably expensive plane performs rather than so much that you got your table done this year or next?
Do you see where I am going here ?
You probably want a compromise some where in the middle.
The trade offs:
Sharpen on the side walk; cheep but you will have to push the tool with more effort to do the same work of a tool that has had more accuracy put into the edge.
Use a jig and a stone or two and you are back to your work fast but if you don't learn to sharpen by hand when your cutter doesn't fit into the jig you will be helpless. Learning to sharpen by hand can be a long and frustrating row to hoe. I am convinced some people don't know that the geometry isn't right even though they can shave arm hair. There is more to it than a sharp edge on the end of a metal plate.
Spend more attention to the edge ( read a lot, buy some expensive stuff, take your time ) and you will produce a surprisingly rewarding surface that takes less physical effort as compared to slap dash sharpening.
I put more into the accuracy and so I spend less effort and less time using sand paper ( almost never touch the stuff for wood though I do a lot of sanding on metal ). You see time spent at the edge producing end of the operation may save you time and effort on the surface producing task.
I enjoy sharpening and I enjoy the way the tools cut almost ( ok more than ) the final product. I can enjoy a big long ribbon of metal coming off my metal lathe or two ribbons coming out of a drill bit hole all day and never get tired of it. I am just sick that way.
How much of a hurry are you in ? Do you like mirror finishes on your work and on your tools ? Can you hire a smart little kid in the neighbor hood to do all your sharpening for you in exchange for hanging out and learning wood working ? That is what the old masters did though I think it came more in the line of child slavery and indenturship than an equitable friendly arrangement.
I say get all the cool stuff, Tormek, cool white slow grinder, water stones, Arkansas stones for the carbon blades that rust so you can use oil on them AND work toward learning over time to hand sharpen as much as possible because it is quicker than jigs.
It is going to cost you. In time or toys or both. Have fun.
PS: try to find some real cabinet makers that use hand planes and chisels a whole lot. Ask them to help you experience a truly sharp tool. Then you will know when you are there.
Sorry you are not in Colorado I would invite you over. I see you deal in medical. These tools are sharper than scalpels ! And have a much more durable edge geometry. Picture two mirrors coming together and at the arise there is nothing.
roc
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Edited 3/8/2009 7:32 pm by roc
Edited 3/8/2009 7:42 pm by roc
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