Replies

1. 
   Midnight | Dec 21, 2003 12:29am | #1

   Jerry....

   forgive me if I'm wrong, but to me, it sounds as if you're only puting weight on the cenrte of the blade. Try spreading the pressure right across the blade. Hold the jig in both hands; two fingers from each hand extending down to rest imediately before the edge, spread them evenly across the blade i.e. outer fingers at the corners, inner fingers either side of centre. Apply pressure as evenly as you can. It'll take a little practice, but trust me, stick with it...

   Mike Wallace

   Stay safe....Have fun

1. 
   Bonka | Dec 21, 2003 06:01am | #4

   Thanks to all who replied.  I tried, as you suggested Mike, and things are a whole lot better.  I had no idea one could flex an iron like that.  I got it to 25 degrees with the final hone on an 8000 stone and a micro bevel at 27 degrees.  I will know in the AM what it does.  It is too damn cold out to do anything tonigt.

   Jerry

1. 
   Midnight | Dec 21, 2003 11:11pm | #8

   Glad to hear it's working out Jerry....Mike Wallace

   Stay safe....Have fun

2. 
   jazzdogg | Dec 21, 2003 01:46am | #2

   Jerry,

   The situation you describe explains why so many, myself included, prefer to hollow-grind using a grinder like the Tormek, followed by honing on stones (oilstones, waterstones, diamond, ceramic...).

   I much prefer to hone hollow-ground chisels and plane irons because it's so easy to feel the balance between the heel and toe - I find flat bevels much easier to mess up when honing by hand.

   FWIW,
   Paul

   Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
1. 
   Manchild | Dec 22, 2003 02:26am | #11

   I've used a dremel tool to hollow grind the bevel. At any of the stones you are on. If you find that things are going too slow just create a hollow. If doing it by hand is to tricky just point the tip into a scrap piece of wood with the bevel side up. then when you pass the dremel back and forth the tip won't get hit accidentally because it is against the wood.

   
1. 
   jazzdogg | Dec 22, 2003 03:23am | #12

   David,

   That's a novel approach. However, with my middle-aged eyes I think it'll be easier for me to continue to use the Tormek grinder to hollow-grind my tools.

   PaulWhether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.

3. 
   Alan | Dec 21, 2003 03:00am | #3

   Jerry,

   What Mike said!

   It's surprisingly easy to flex an iron and sharpen just a part of it.  DAMHIKT.  Mike's suggestion of how to hold things to avoid the trouble works.

   Also, why did you begin on a 220?  That's an awfully coarse stone.  I use my green stone only when I have a nick or something else that requires me to remove lots of steel.  When I have to go back to zero--when I have put on enough micro-bevels and need to get back to a flat bevel--I use my 800 stone.  Using a finer stone I can fix anything that's gone wrong long before I've made a huge problem.

   Hang in there.  I don't care what others say, sharpening isn't easy, and it's not like riding a bicycle.  You need to figure out a methodology that works for you, and then stick with it.

   Alan

4. 
   kolson | Dec 21, 2003 09:09am | #5

   Your troubles sound very much like mine.

        I started using Norton waterstones  sharpening a plane iron, and while trying to flatten the back there was a great change in pattern when changing grits.

    I had 2 1000 grits and per instuctions used one to flatten the others and they appeared to be flat.

       But one was not and it made the rest uneven.

      Once I started using120 wet or dry silicon carbide on glass for flattening the stones things worked very well.

   Ken

1. 
   15Broad | Dec 21, 2003 03:24pm | #6

     Me too, Jerry.  I've recently begun to slowly unravel the mysteries of sharpening and discovered that sil-car paper on glass works very well.  If you're fortunate enough to have a piece of polished granite laying about, that'll work too.  I might eventually try a 6000 or 8000 stone for final polish only, but for now I'll stick with paper & glass WITH a jig.  Maintaining a consistent bevel without one is very difficult.  I start with 320 followed by 400, 600 and finishing off with 1500grit.  I'm looking for something finer still, I believe they make up to about 2500 in paper.  Use a self adhesive paper or a light film of spray on adhesive to secure the paper to the glass.  I've used duct tape, but you need to get the paper very tight to avoid it being pushed up around the blade.  For more tips on sharpening, check out my own post in Joinery entitled Sharpening setup for chisels, there's also an article or two on this site in the Skills & Techniques section.  Also, there's a book by Leonard Lee called The Complete Guide to Sharpening which has been recommended to me.  Best of luck to you, this is evidently only one of many frustrating skills we need to master, but perserverence will pay off. 

     One more thing.  When you do finally get the sharpening thing figured out, don't wipe chips off the chisel with your finger.  While demonstrating to my son how dangerous and sharp the chisels are I earned myself a nice little gash in my index finger.  Smooth move Dad.  Anyhow, good luck & I hope I helped.  

1. 
   Steinmetz | Dec 21, 2003 03:44pm | #7

   15broad,  Try crocus cloth,  (Iron oxide.)  I believe it's the max in polishing steel.      Stein.

2. 
   jackiechan | Dec 21, 2003 11:22pm | #9

   15,

   Lee Valley has the paper you're looking for in 1000, 2500, and 9000 grits.  http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=33004&category=1,43072&ccurrency=2&SID=

   (Note: Leonard Lee - The Complete Guide To Sharpening, is the "Lee" in Lee Valley.)Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Dec 22, 2003 02:14am | #10

   Dan

      Lee Valley has 9000 grit paper? Didn't know that and I purchase there all the time. Hey, Charmin' Extra Soft toilet paper don't come close to that grit. Maybe I'll start getting the 9000 grit from them and just kill two birds with one stone. ha.. ha...

   Merry Xmas, Dan...

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   jackiechan | Dec 22, 2003 07:56am | #13

   Sarge,

   I'm one step ahead of you on this one!

   Merry Christmas - best holiday wishes to you and your family.

   Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.

   Edited 12/21/2003 11:57:47 PM ET by Jackie Chan

   
2. 
   RANGERP75R | Dec 22, 2003 08:43am | #15

   Dan

      Probably more than one step on that one. I love what you guys can do with these computers. ha..ha.. <> ha.. ha.. ha..

   Regards...

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

3. 
   UncleDunc | Dec 22, 2003 08:11am | #14

   Micro Mesh has 12000, but it's padded, so you wouldn't want to use it for sharpening.

4. 
   RANGERP75R | Dec 22, 2003 08:46am | #16

   Dunc

      I have never seen over about 4000. Didn't even know they made it in that high of a grit. I stop at 1200 with scary sharp and hit a 4000 then 8000 stone. I guess I should come out of the shop ocassionally just to see what happened while I was reclused. ha.. ha..

   Regards...

   sarge..jt

   Proud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

   Edited 12/22/2003 12:48:24 AM ET by SARGE

5. 
   15Broad | Dec 22, 2003 02:33pm | #17

     Thanks, Stein.  I have crocus cloth and used it a little, but am running into another problem that concerns me.  I'll post my own question, though.

6. 
   Tao | Dec 23, 2003 12:59am | #18

     >>I have never seen over about 4000. Didn't even know they made it in that high of a grit. I stop at 1200 with scary sharp and hit a 4000 then 8000 stone. I guess I should come out of the shop ocassionally just to see what happened while I was reclused. ha.. ha..

   There's lots of confusion over grit sizes, especially between Japanese waterstones and American grits.

   An 8000 grit waterstone has a grit size of about 1.2 microns, which is equivalent to a CAMI (USA) coated abrasive grit between 1500 and 2000. 

   Lee Valley's 9000 grit is 0.5 micron, which is about equivalent to a 9000 waterstone, which probably grades out around 2500 CAMI.

   To add to the confusion are the FEPA or "P" grades (European) which start out roughly equivalent to CAMI grades, but start diverging past 600 grit.  P 1200 is about equivalent to CAMI 800, and P2500 is about equivalent to CAMI 1000, and is slightly coarser than a 2000 waterstone.

   Here's a link that may allay some of the confusion.  I would be surprised if FW hadn't published something similar in the past.

   http://www.ameritech.net/users/knives/grits.htm

   Michael R.

7. 
   RANGERP75R | Dec 23, 2003 05:46am | #19

   Michael

      I find that not only interesting, but informative. I was not aware of the different grading systems in abrasives. It's just something that you may not cross it's path on a daily basis. From what I see in the charts, I should just eliminate the 4000 grit water-stone as it appears to be very close to the 1200 grit paper I use. Just go straight to the 8000 grit.

      Thanks for posting the site as it goes a long way in informing me that what you think you got is not always what you got. ha.. ha...

   Regards...

   sarge.jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

8. 
   Tao | Dec 23, 2003 06:38am | #20

   >> I was not aware of the different grading systems in abrasives

   Don't feel bad.  I've been butchering wood for a living for a long time, and it took me a while to catch on.  It ain't exactly well publicized.

   Michael R

9. 
   RANGERP75R | Dec 23, 2003 06:54am | #21

   MIke

     No it isn't. When I started WW'ing in 72', most products that were available were from the U.S. You didn't see all that much available period then. When Highland Hardware came on the scene in 78' here in Atlanta, it started opening a few doors to what went on elsewhere around the world.

     I was exposed to Frid, Kresnov, Klaus and Odate. After them came the flood of WW'ing products from Europe and Japan. It is impossible to know all the faucets of this craft, as quoted to me once by Sam Maloof. All the standards from those countries are still mysteries in most cases. With the computer technology we have now, it is much easier to keep abreast, but we will never absorb it all and that's a fact.

      The good news is we are capable of absorbing much more of it than 20 or 30 years ago with the rapid communication and paying attention. I am not an advocate of radical change, but this is one that was needed. Someone now is capable of knowing what I know after 30 + years in a much shorter time span if they want to do the home-work.

   Regards...

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)