Hi:
I purchased my first Japanese chisel this past weekend. The store told me not to hollow grind it. I asked about adding secondary bevel and the salesperson said I should. But now I’m wondering it that’s good advice. Any thoughts on secondary bevels on this style of chisel?
Thanks.
Replies
I have Japanese chisels and don't use a secondary bevel but it is because I have to sharpen them without the honing guides. like the Veritas. The blades on Japanese chisels are too short to fit in the guide and set at the proper angle. I found , after trying, and discarding, a few jigs, that sharpening without the guides is probably the best for this type chisel but it took quite a bit of practise to get it right. Now I sharpen all my chisels that way and found that if I get a nice 25 degree bevel ( or put a 27 degree on it) the chisel cuts just fine. There are a couple of sites that describe the technique; maybe you might want to try sharpening without guides.
Can you elaborate on "a lot of practice". I'm interested in sharpening sans guide, but am worried I'll spend more time sharpening (and still screw it up) than working....
Hard to say. Some people learn manual skills easily and rapidly, some don't. I've made my living at a keyboard for the last 20 years, and I type slower now and with more errors than I did in high school. I've been sharpening knives freehand for 30 some years with only passable results. I could probably put in 1000 hours sharpening chisels freehand and not do much better. Maybe a little better. The fact that chisel edges are short and straight compared to knives would reduce the complexity of the task somewhat. For me, with the amount of time I spend using and sharpening chisels, taking the time to use the honing guide doesn't waste time, it saves time.
Edited 5/6/2004 10:33 pm ET by Uncle Dunc
Don't worry. Honing a chisel is easy. Really.
Freehand, press the chisel onto the stone. Try to duplicate the existing bevel angle by rocking back and forth until you find it. This is not as critical as you might think from all the hype you read. Don't worry about rounding the bevel. I repeat: Don't worry about rounding the bevel.
Make about 10 large figure eights, then feel along the edge for the wire of folded over metal. The most important thing is that you get a wire across the entire edge. Break the wire with a pass or two of the chisel back on the stone. Then strop.
You will get a razor sharp chisel the very first time. I promise.
Save your guides for renewing the bevel, every month or so of hard use.
Regards,
Dan
>> You will get a razor sharp chisel the very first time. I promise.
Didn't work when I tried it.
Besides, razor sharp isn't sharp enough. Leonard Lee's book has pictures of different tool edges, and a properly sharpened chisel is a lot sharper than a razor.
I had a site ( but have apparently lost it now) that described in detail how to sharpen without a guide; showed a lot of valuable info for the "first-timer". I got the info from this forum, so if you check the archives it probably is still there in a sharpening thread.
Cajun Dan is surely more skilled than I am but it took me a long time to get it right and I still have trouble. Yet, they work after I sharpen them, so its okay. The difficulty is replicating the bevel in exactly the same way with each pass. The back is easy enough but I find it extremely difficult to do that on the bevel. You have two issues: the squareness of the end and maintaining the bevel absolutely parallel to the stone with every pass. A guide assures you maintain the position everytime; the "push stroke" and "pull stroke" require different pressures and assuring the bevel stays parallel during this change, took "some" practice for me, but others more skilled may master it in"a heart beat". If you want to do it, just do it; it will work out with time.
I'm not particularly skilled but sharpen very successfully without honing guides or jigs.
I just use the hollow grind from the wheel to find the "right" spot, then press down firmly to hold it there. No problem. It's harder on a jack plane iron because it's heavy and wide, but still not too difficult, and for a chisel it's a piece of cake (believe me, if I say it's easy then it is).
For some reason I can get the blade sharper without the guide. I think this is because I can move the blade around the stone in all different directions rather than just back and forth.
I've also given up using the Veritas jig on the grinding wheel. I can do a better job freehand.
I was reluctant to try sharpening without guides and jigs. What I've found, though, is that the human hand is a remarkable tool, and there's a lot of "feel" to the process. The guides and jigs were getting in the way of that "feel." And of course the accuracy of the guide or jig just introduces that much more possibility of error.
Hi, Sailalex
I doubt seriously that i am more skilled than you. Just that some people get hung up on all the stuff they read.
Nobody should be afraid to sharpen their tools. In fact, it is the first skill a woodworker should learn; and chisels are the best tools to learn with.
A chisel is not a plane. For paring, chopping mortises, dovetails, etc. its just not that critical that the edge be perpendicular to the sides, or the bevel be flat. I know I will catch a lot of flak for this, but it is enough for me to be able to pare edge grain without spending a lot of time sharpening.
Dan
Edited 5/7/2004 1:22 pm ET by Cajun Dan
Dan:
I appreciate your comment. As a beginner, it's easy to paralyze oneself with worry about technique. It happens to me all the time. I have to remind myself the goal is to build stuff and not have the sharpest chisel on the block.
That is exactly the right attitude.
When I took Homestead Heritage's hand tool course, master woodworker Paul Sellers took a chisel and sharpened it freehand in just that way. Then he proceded to take translucent shavings off walnut end grain.
After that, he passed the chisel around. When it got to me I noticed it had a noticably rounded over bevel. That's when I had my epiphany - its the edge that cuts, not the bevel.
Regards,
Dan
The secret to freehand honing is practice, of course. Start with your biggest chisel like the 1 inch. This has a long bevel and it is easy to "feel" that the bevel remains flat on the stone while honing. Progress down to the smaller chisels. You will find that the 1/4 inch and smaller are the most difficult to sharpen.
Congratulations on your purchase! Good quality Japaese chisels are excellent tools. I usually grind to a 25 degree bevel which is great for soft woods. I'll come back with a secondary bevel for hard woods. The secondary bevel is honed in. The reason for not hollow grinding Japanese chisels is the worry of weakening the edge of the chisel,as Japanese chisels have a hollow ground back, doing so may cause the edge to actually break off during heavy chopping situations. Buck
bake sale,
I ain't no expert but I do have a couple of Japanese chisels and enjoy them very much. They hold there sharpness very well especially when chopping dovetails. I can't see the benefit of a secondary bevel...it would seem to me that is more pertinent to plane blades than chopping like a chisel....I could be wrong...
The reason you don't want a hollow grind is because of the laminated construction of a japanese chisel. The cutting edge is made of a harder and more brittle steel, which is laminated to a softer steel. With a hollow grind, the edge is not as well supported by the ductile steel, and will chip easier, just like grinding at too low of an angle.
As for a secondary bevel, everybody has their own opinion. Experiment a little, and decide what you like. The advantages are quicker touch up on the edge (until you have to regrind again), and slightly more support at the edge. The disadvantage is that it takes a little more effort to cut.
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