Replies

1. 
   QCInspector | Jun 03, 2006 09:55pm | #1

   The link didn't work for me until the period was removed.

   http://www.inlandlapidary.com

   Don't have any personal experience with those polishers but see no reason why they couldn't be a starting point. Those look similar to the polishers that my sister has for stained glass. They are light weight and are not as ridged as machines I've come to expect for woodworking but work for the glass. Sharpening blades may not need it though.

   If you do go this route post your results, good or bad, as it has possibilities.

2. 
   douglas2cats | Jun 03, 2006 10:20pm | #2

   This doesn't answer your question but I've been seeing a lot of very good comments on the Lapsharp machine on WW forums. It's got some (but not all) of the features you were looking for.

   http://www.lapsharp.com/Products-LapSharp200.htm

   If you build it he will come.

3. 
   philip | Jun 04, 2006 01:05am | #3

   In principle diamond honing works a treat, especially if you have the finest grits.This is how Leitz and others produce tungsten tipped planer knives that are shaving sharp-they are polished like a mirror.
   I would think the machine equipped with diamond discs would be expensive.Seems like overkill for ordinary hand tools though.

   Philip Marcou
1. 
   Chairwright | Jun 04, 2006 05:26am | #4

   Actually not that pricey - a little less than the Tormek basic unit and that includes several grits of discs on the Inland machine.  Since I do this for a living time is money, so it's not overkill for me.  Chairwright

1. 
   philip | Jun 04, 2006 05:39am | #5

   Then it sounds good and worth trying one to see how fast it does the job and if there are no issues with glazing of the wheel etc.At the end of the day the more usual traditional method(s) may be faster and better.I am just speculating.Philip Marcou

2. 
   BG | Jun 04, 2006 01:16pm | #6

   Chairwright,
   A couple of years ago a member here hought a similar machine with a flat disc for sharpening. He was not satisfied honing wide blades on the flat surface....primarily because the outside of the blade got more honing than the inside of the blade. He sent his back.
   I wonder, however, if the blade could be positioned parrallel to the direction of travel (rather than perpendiclar) and wouldn't that mitigate the above issue?

1. 
   Chairwright | Jun 04, 2006 03:49pm | #7

   That's a good point - one I hadn't thought of.   That would apply to the Lapsharp type sharpeners also.  Yes, I think holding wider blades parallel or near parallel would mitigate it.  A really nice feature might be a reversible machine - if it hones more to the outside than the inside, maybe you could reverse it on a smoothing plane and get the slight convex?  Chairwright 

1. 
   Sharpdon | Jun 22, 2006 07:47pm | #11

   The outer rotation of the disc abrading faster that the inside can be an issue if the tool is hand held and one allows the to feed forward on the outer side of the disc. When using the Lap-Sharp and tool guide bar, use the self squaring clamp to hold the tool so that the edge remains square. If you picture arrows of pressure on the back of the tool (while sharpening the bevel) the pressure is even when the abrading starts. The outer edge will abrade sooner than the inside, so the outer pressure arrow is now smaller while the inner one catches up to the outside. This happens so quickly, the tool edge remains square. If you freehand a tool, just add slightly more pressure to the inside edge. When hand holding tools with large bevels, the bevel can be held in line with the rotation.If a significant amount of abrading is needed (as with a rusty tool), Regalite is a fast cutting abrasive (used dry) and will make quick work of generating an even scratch pattern. You can then quickly move to finer and finer abrasives to eliminate the scratches from the previous grit. We currently supply abrasives to 1 micron and are testing even finer abrasives. We use Trizact for many fine abrasive applications as at 10 micron and finer, the swarf can cause flaws in the sharpening surface. There is a video showing the sharpening of a chisel back and bevel plus sharpening a card scraper on the website at http://www.woodartistry.com/Products-LapSharp200.htm (about the middle of the page) and there is a brochure that shows common sharpening flaws in the "Shop Notes" section of the site. There is also a page that explains the different abrasives currently available.Please contact me if I can answer any other questions you may have about the Lap-Sharp or sharpening.

2. 
   jazzdogg | Jun 04, 2006 10:53pm | #8

   "...primarily because the outside of the blade got more honing than the inside of the blade..."

   BG,

   I've been testing the Lap Sharp for about a year, and the fact that it's reversible helps to mitigate against the rotational differences you mention.

   It's a costly system that is, from what I can tell, still in its developmental infancy; accessories have come along slowly and at added cost.

   Lap Sharp excels at flattening the backs of plane irons and chisels, largely because of the reversibility and the foot-operated on/off switch; I don't believe the results would be nearly as good if one were required to engage the iron with the wheel already turning.

   The unit from Lee Valley/Veritas looks promising and is less costly, and they say there's a foot switch that can be used to operate their machine. However, it lacks reversibility - which I view as a significant shortcoming.

    -Jazzdogg-

   "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie

1. 
   Chairwright | Jun 05, 2006 01:18am | #9

   On the Lap Sharp machine, what is your experience with the longevity of the sandpaper?  I presume the oxide paper wears down quickly, but I don't know anything about the 3M Ragalite and the diamond paper.  From everything I've looked at, I'd probably go with the Lap Sharp but I'm afraid of being nickeled and dimed to death on the sandpaper.

   The reversibility, footswitch, and quality bearings and components, apparent heft,  and being made in the US are all attractive to me.

2. 
   jazzdogg | Jun 05, 2006 03:27am | #10

   Hello Chairwright,

   It is hard for me to say whether the quantity of abrasive we've used has been reasonable because we have had a large number of people using, and abusing, the Lap Sharp over the last few semesters.

   Getting the abrasive stuck to the underlying disk without creases or bubbles seems to have a noteworthy effect on longevity; paying attention to which grits work best with and without water is also important.

   We've replaced far more of the coarse abrasive than the micron grits, no doubt because the lion's share of the work is done with the coarsest grits.

   Personally, I find myself using sharpening machinery (whether it's a bench grinder, Tormek, or Lap Sharp) only occasionally on bevels, which need to be honed far more often than they need to be re-shaped - which is what I use the machines for.

   It's a good thing that I prefer to hone my bench and carving chisels, and plane irons, by hand, because these powered sharpening rigs aren't ideal for honing in my opinion - using a machine to hone is, to me, a lot like swatting flies with a sledge hammer.

   The Lap sharp has seen a lot of use flattening the backs of chisels and plane irons, particularly funky, old, damaged tools that are being brought back from the brink of neglect and abuse. Tormek, and other popular powered rigs, aren't particularly well-suited to flattening and polishing the backs of chisels and plane irons, which is where Lap Sharp excels.

   Ultimately, the question I keep asking myself is: if I didn't have access to the Lap Sharp machine at school, would I invest my own money to buy one, or would I revert to flattening with abrasive adhered to float glass, combined with lots of time & elbow grease?

   Since I already own a large collection of well-tuned chisels and planes, and because I only find it necessary to use powered gear to change a bevel angle, flatten a damaged back, or re-grind a damaged bevel, I have difficulty believing - as much as it would be nice to have one in my shop - that labor savings would be likely to offset the cost of ownership. Of course, we're each unique, with our own set of needs, preferences, and predilections, so it's a question we'll each have to answer for ourselves.

   If someone offered me a Lap Sharp or Tormek for free, I'd take one. It is doubtful, however, if I'll ever invest my own hard-earned cash on either machine based solely on the return on investment.

   Your mileage may vary,

   -Jazzdogg-

   "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie

   Edited 6/4/2006 9:02 pm by jazzdogg