I have a set of the cheap blue marples chisels that dont seem to hold an edge very well. They are well sharpened down to 8000 grit and then stropped. I sharpen them to 35 degrees and then back off 2 degrees with a micro bevel. Today the 3/8 chisel is very ragged after 10 minutes and 1 small mortise 1/2 deep in red oak.
Any thoughts about whether its too cheap of a chisel, or perhaps the angle and sharpening needs to change somewhat?
Something like the Lie-nielsen chisels look very nice but are $50/chisel .
I’ve got two large chests to do in cherry with hand dovetails soon and want them to look good.
Any help would be appreciated.
Stevo
Replies
The Marples chisels I have are of fairly poor quality, but I should have known that from the price. Still, I think they should hold up better than yours have. You might try grinding back about a 1/32" to get to good steel. I have found that sometimes, either the heat treating or grinding at the factory, damages the steel at the cutting edge, and if I grind back a little, the edge holding improves ( sometimes dramatically).
Japanese chisels are great tools for the money and you may want to consider purchasing some of them to replace your Marples. I own several of these, and one LN chisel. I've had the LN for only a short time, but it is an excellent, if expensive chisel. I've had the Japanese chisels for several years now, and they hold up very well, and are easy to set up ( flatten the back) and sharpen.
Rob Millard
Although I too have a set of Japanese chisels, I would caution against using one to cut mortises in oak. I used one for exactly that purpose, only to end up with small chips off both sides of the blade. I later learned that Japanese chisels are generally designed to be used in soft woods and often chip when used in hard woods like oak.
I have not used my Japanese chisels, for mortising in oak, but I have used them to make the knuckle joints in white oak for card table fly apron joints ( an abusive task), and countless dovetails in walnut, cherry, maple and mahogany with no problems.
I did destroy a Japanese chisel when removing the waste from a dovetail socket in a tripod candle stand . I gave it a twisting motion trying to lever out some waste, and this cracked the chisel, where the two steels are laminated together. Of course this was all my fault, not the chisel.
Rob Millard
There are different steel types used in Japanese chisels. The blue steel chisels are made with alloys to be used with hardwoods. The white steel carbon chisels hold a finer edge, but should be used with soft woods.
I have a set of marples that I sharpen about twice a year and use them all the time on walnut gunstocks. Don't forget that everyone make a lemon once in a while.
I wonder if it's different kinds of Marples, as many manufacturers sell at multiple price points. I have some really inexpensive Marples, came four for $30, so not top of the line obviously. I don't have the experience to judge if they're good, but I intend to get at least one really fine chisel to compare, to see if there's any benefit in my incapable hands to finer gear. :)
I've owned more than one set of Marples chisels. The one's with the yellow plastic handles did not seem to hold an edge well. They were of more recent vintage. I have an older set of Blue Chip chisels which seem indestructible. I don't know if the manufacturing process changed or if these were just made poorly.
If you have the Marples with the blue handles that were introduced with a big advertising blitz about three years ago it is the steel. I took a week long woodworking class not long after they were introduced that required a lot of chisel work. Several people in the class had purchased sets of Marples chisels and they were all having the same problem. They just won't hold an edge because they used a relatively soft steel. You might want to check out Two Cherries chisels. They are a little cheaper than Lie Nielsen. I have a set and am very well pleased with them. Like the Lie Nielsens the back of the chisels are ground flat and polished which saves you a lot of work and time in tuning before you can use them.Two places that handle them are "Tools for Working Wood" and "Mikes Tools". They both have web sites. toolsforworkingwood.com and mikestools.com
Stevo: Carbide.com had or has a set of Two Cherries bench chisels on sale. I don't know it these might be a lesser line from Two Cherries but they look like the real thing. Duke
http://www.carbide.com/catalog/special041.cfmsels
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I have some really good chisels and my Blue Marples ( I got some time ago) I think the ones out now may have different steel.... I can use them quite a bit before they get dull.. HOWEVER.. 8000?? Just me but I would think you would need some really quality steel to hold a edge at 8000..
Today the 3/8 chisel is very ragged after 10 minutes and 1 small mortise 1/2 deep in red oak.
Geee I'm in trouble now.. Blue Marples ain't Mortise chisels!
EDIT:: Sorry.. I kind of like my set of Marples.. NOT the greatest but do a very good job for the price paid..
Edited 10/27/2005 10:20 pm by WillGeorge
Steve -
I recently purchased a set of Marples chisels. I spent at least an hour on each one painfully flattening and polishing the backs, then grinding the bevels. I used a Tormek grinder carefully matching the bevel grind to the factory angle. I didn't check for what angle it was, just went with the flow.
I'm sorely dissapointed in their performance.
I try paring end grain and the edge is gone in a heartbeat. Most or their useage is in paring off small nibs on the bottom of turned pieces. Sometimes hardwood such as black locust, just as often softer woods such as birch. I found them to be something of a dissapointment. I have several old Craftsman chisels that will dull comparitevly fast but the edges on these Marples tools don't simply dull, they chip and break. Maybe I should reduce the angle of the bevel to get better performance, I don't know. I'm not the resident expert on chisel grinding by any means. But I'm totally frustrated with this purchase.
Like everything else Japanese chisels come in different grades. I'm not sure what's available in the States but here in Japan there's the home center/hardware versions (mass produced) and then the professional versions found in shops that cater to professionals, carpenters and the like.
True, due to the hardness of the steel in Japanese chisels one should be careful when using it with a hardwood. Like any chisel the bevel angle is increased or decreased depending on whether your using it with hardwoods or softwoods.
(8 parts serves yourself and the other 2 parts serves the doctor.)
Gee my best parts or others...I was in Japan several times on business long ago,, Ya folks are strange... but really COOL! No hate here,, Handshake.. I wash often...
WillGeorge, I'm not Japanese, the people around me are though. I'm just an observer, just watching and learning how others do things.Strange?...I'd say different is all, lots to like and lots to adjust too. As you may know if you stay in another land for an extended length of time you learn quick that if you choose to "dislike" things your smile doesn't last long and the place begins to drive you batty. The 8 parts bit is heard when you're a kid here, really good advice, meaning don't eat too much is all.
Thanks everybody. I think Im going to spring for a good set of chisels.Stevo
Try looking at fine woodworking 139 pg 52 Bench-Chisel Review
Great read
I bought the blue Marples chisels at Lowes about 7 years ago. They were in a set of four 1/4",1/2,"3/4",and,1" and cost $20.00.I added a 3/8" and 5/8" from Lee Valley a few years later.I use them as my utility chisels and for paring with a 20 bevel on them. They have held up well.I remember the instructions said to only use a hammer on them lightly once in a while because the handles were not meant for heavy work.I use better quality chisels and mortise chisel for that.
I have some old Marples.. I grind at 35 degrees... Not sure why?? They work OK and never had a chip.. Well once I had to much Jack and had the chisel up-side-down!
I have some Marples Blue Chips that are around 25 yrs. old, plus some new ones. I was using a couple today. My new 1 1/2" was toast after six light taps, I grabbed my old 1" and worked it the rest of the afternoon, I could still shave with it. I'm guessing that the steel has changed. The older ones are as good or better than other chisels I own. The new ones are essentially useless.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
A while ago Marples was taken over by Irwin tools at this time there seems to have been a hiccup in the quality. I have had one apprentice who bought some blue handle Marples and they were fine the next one took my advice and bought the yellow handled ones and while there bought a cheap set of blue ones we couldn't get them to hold an edge and ended up bining them. the yelow handled ones were bought as individuals and two of the three were ok but one the 1/2in wouldn't hold an edge. the nice people at our local importer exchanged that one. the new one works well.
Peter
I have a set of Marples Blue chips chisels that I use as all the time and have had great luck with them. I also remember how they did pretty well in the fine woodworking article a while back that did a deteailed test.
Good article by the way, did a good gob explaining the value of steel hardness and the effect of the steel being too hard.
Dave
I'm surprised this thread has gone this far without recommending purchasing older chisels from somewhere like e-bay. There are many old chisels available that are every bit the equals of the best chisels made today. Very good, and still reasonably available are the Buck Brothers Cast Steel socket chisels. Stanley 750's are also good, perhaps not quite up to the Buck standard. The Stanley Everlast are wonderful, if a bit heavy, and now expensive because of collectibility. If you can find them Charles Buck chisels are excellent as are Swan and Witherby.
I would tend to disagree.
ebay chisels are mostly sold by the clueless.All of them with rare exceptions
(in my case two out of twenty five) are
restoration projects. Bent bowed chipped pitted
all described as "excellent, fine, ready to work"
beautiful patina and other such nonsense.Only two purchases yielded chisels that did not
require serious rework. A Canadian fellow
that I regret not buying everything he had.
(Beautiful reproductions of handles, backs flatter
than I will usually settle for in a new chisel,
honed with an 8000 stone.If you do the ebay thing be prepared for
things like 1/8 inch bows. Near spear points
for tips. Grinding till you are tense in
exasperation and lectures from idiots
telling you how many they sold with no complaints.Just my 2 cents having been there and done that
at least 15 times maybe more...
If the pictures don't make the condition clear, I don't read the text. True, that's most cases, but you only need 6 or 8 to begin. And you won't find one every week, but they are there. I can't really imagine buying 18 bad chisels. And I'll sure match a good Buck Brother's "cast steel" against a Two Cherries or the like.
Except for a very few new chisels, the backs still need flattening, and the edge ground and honed, so not much difference there.
Edited 11/3/2005 10:48 pm ET by SteveSchoene
THis is an amusing direction that this thread has gone to. I've got one gripe about ebay and I've just got to express it - people are over-using the word "patina." Being extremely dirty and rusty does not necessary equal "patina." I'm seeing descriptions like "Excellent Patina," or "Plenty o' Patina!" when what they should say is "Tool is covered with so much dirt, grime and heavy rust it obviously hasn't been cleaned or used since Herbert Hoover was President. Possibly recovered from a trash dump." There, I've gotten it out of my system. Carry on, folks.
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