FWW readers, inspired to try a plane kit after the article in the latest FWW, should be prepared to be patient!
I ordered a kit from Shepherd early in October, and the VISA transaction went through on the 12th of October.
I waited, and nothing happened. So a couple of weeks ago I emailed. No answer.
This morning Ben has finally responded to say he’d check at the shop (tomorrow), and that it might not have been despatched yet!
So. Be prepared to wait, folks!
Malcolm
Replies
I was in their shop a few weeks ago and they where really busy. They are well worth the wait. Here are the results of my builds.
I don't have any reservations about the goods - just a bit frustrated at the customer service. I know these guys are engineers, not retailers ... and I'm cutting them some slack. But if they couldn't deliver, or didn't intend to, they shouldn't have taken my money!
Planes look nice - well done. I have an A6 smoother on the way - eventually!
Malcolmhttp://www.macpherson.co.nz
Just checked their web page http://www.shepherdtool.com/novemberdecember2005_newsletter.htm
They say they about 4 weeks behind
Malcolm
I couldn't agree with you more! Taking someone's money, and waiting to deliver the product is rediculous, if not fraudulent! I spoke with Ben Knebel about this last year when I ALMOST ordered a plane kit from them. When he told me the wait time, and that they process the $$$$ immediately, I lost interest.
I'm hoping someday that they change either their customer service, or their policy of using their customers to solve cash flow issues. The kits seem to be one of the better one's available, but with the customer service issue's, they probably lose a ton of business.
Jeff
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/mailrule.htm
I think it's pretty rediculous that you'd refer me to the rules of phone order sales from the FTC. It's not about what's written in some rule book, and then riding on the edge of it. It's about doing what's right, and feeling comfortable with the way you do it. I've been in business for 20 years, and not once had I ever taken anybody's cash before delivering the product. NOT ONCE!! Deposits on custom jobs where money is being spent on material to build a piece of furniture, or redesigning someone's landscaping, swimming pool, house, etc.......... is one thing. Taking 300 bucks from someone, and ignoring them for 2 months before finally mailing out a kit is NOT the way to make a business grow.
J H
"Taking 300 bucks from someone, and ignoring them for 2 months before finally mailing out a kit is NOT the way to make a business grow."
Jeff,
I couldn't agree more.
One of the principals from Shepherd Tools was the featured speaker at a meeting of the San Diego Fine Woodworkers Association several months ago.
Our organization has more than 1,500 members, of whom perhaps 400 were present for the presentation.
Much excitement prevailed, and several orders were placed. However, as disgruntled members who had placed yet-unfilled orders began to verbalize their displeasure, several folks who had been seriously considering a purchase changed their minds; I was one of the undecideds who "voted with my pocketbook" and refrained from ordering.
Even if I believed their "deposit now, ship later," policy was ethical, I wholeheartedly agree with you: it's no way to grow a business, develop a loyal clientele, or goodwill.
I hope they wise up soon and learn how to operate their business on a professional basis - it would be a shame to remove their wares from the marketplace!
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Jazzer
Yep, Yep, Yep! It seems as though they have the potential to create a real niche in the market place. So many of us are willing to take on the DIY aspect of building our own planes, but we all expect a certain level of service, both during the sale, and after. I'm quite certain that there are several confusing moments while building one of their kits. If you can't even keep your customers happy before the kit even arrives, how will you earn their repeat business when you leave em hanging, so to speak, in the middle of the process. If I'm in the middle of a project, I don't want to wait a week or two to get an answer back on how to solve an issue with my plane.
Personally, I know that someday I'm gonna build one. I've been hoping for some time that the folks at Shepherd Tools get their act together. Their biggest fear about staying in business should be that somebody else doesn't start producing these kits for sale, along with a strong business savvy about having enough supply to meet the demand, as well as the willingness to quickly guide their customers through the process of successfully creating a beautiful plane. I know that if I meet that person or persons, I'll probably build a fleet of planes for my bench.
Most businesses fail not because of a bad product or service, but because the proprietor(s) can't seem to figure out how to keep their customers from going elsewhere.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Jeff
Jeff -
My stated policy is 2 weeks. If I can't get an order out in two weeks I will send return email offering to return their money. So far, I have not had to do that cause most people will email me first asking what my schedule is.
Also, I don't start work on an order till payment has been received. With mail order sales, you don't have many other options when your not in a position to have stock on hand.
And, in 6 years of doing this, with 1000's of orders, I have never been stiffed by a customer. Nada, not once! To me that says a lot about the caliber of people that do wood working!
I also offer a 100%, no questions asked, money back guarantee. Life is to short to get into squabbles with customers!
In my opinion everyone that sells a product to customers needs to have a policy and need to have it stated in a clear manner for everyone to see.
my 2 cents worth.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
Mike
I couldn't agree with you more. Since we're all not billionaires, we DO need to get paid for our work. Depending on the product or service, the pay schedule is always going to be a little unique. I wouldn't expect to be able to send you a 604 in lousy condition, have you restore it, and send it back to me with a bill, having never met me. But, if I did send you a 604, and you said it would be ready in about 2 weeks, and I get it in 3 months, I'd be a little miffed. Not to mention the fact that I'd never do business with you again.
My other business, my main business, is as a specialty concrete contractor, called mudjacking. We are COD. Customers pay my crew foreman on each job when it is complete, no exceptions. With commercial work, they have 30 days, but the jobs are substantially larger, and I'm dealing with previous customers, some for over 15 years. If I told any of them to send me a check before I scheduled the work, cashed the check, scheduled the work for Dec. 4th, and showed up on Jan. 3rd, I'd be out of business pretty darn quick.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Jeff
Hi Larry,
Thanks for providing the link. I printed it out so I can read it carefully this weekend.
Care to provide a succinct synopsis, or your commentary on the good and bad points of the regulations as written?
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
I ordered a smoother in August. My card was charged immediately, but I still have not received anything. I have sent Ben emails several times, and each time he said that it would be shipped in the next week or so, but still nothing.
Shawn.
Will:can you explain why one of their kits results in a better plane than buying one from a good tool maker?
> can you explain why one of their kits results in a better plane than buying one from a good tool maker <
It might not be better, but it should be better value for money, and it will be a tool you made. Plus, you can customise.
Malcolmhttp://www.macpherson.co.nz
okay. It's just that both editors in the FWW article stated it was one of the best or best planes they had used. I just wondered how as novices they could make one as good as an LN, for example. And these kits aren't cheap.Thanks for the reply.
Dam good question. I can't say for sure that the kit plus if my workmanship produced a better shoulder plane then say LV or LN. I do know this, I used the 1 1/2 shoulder plane to fit tenons on corner shelf I am making. It was the finist joinery I have done, it was a lot of fun, and plenty of additional satisfaction from knowing that my craftmanship (as limited as it is) made the joints, some of the tools that made the joints and the design of the project.
I have several LV planes, and now have my first LN plane. Subjectivly my shoulder planes are in the same league. Maybe not as good but still very good.
When I bought my first kit, I was treating myself to both the tool and experance as a small reward for a very nice carerer move. I thourghly enjoyed making all three planes. I intend to buy another kit in the next few months.
I have a great advantage over many of you. I can drive to their shop in an hour and pick my kit up. It works for me. Furgus is my dads home town and I have lots of family in the area.
I agree that it is bad form to practice business along the lines many of you have discribed. It is upsetting to know that unless they cleen up their act the product, which I like, may not be available.
Thanks, Will.
In response to this discussion and to an email that was sent to Fine Woodworking, I contacted the Shepherd Tool Company and spoke with two of the owners, Doug Evans and Ben Knebel. They confirmed that they have had two major production problems this year that have seriously delayed shipments: a quantity of cocobolo for the infills was seriously checked resulting in 75% wastage and causing a delay while more was obtained; secondly, they transferred the manufacturing of the adjuster mechanism from a part-time employee to an outside engineering company. Instead of speeding up production, the parts were not correctly made, and the company was unable to give reliable supply dates.
The two owners claim that 75% of the back orders have now been shipped, and that they are expecting a large quantity of adjusters in the next ten days which should enable the remaining orders to be shipped. When I asked them how long it would take to receive an identical plane to the one in the article made by Matt Berger, they said around four weeks.
I suggested two changes that they could make: Firstly, to change the estimated delivery time on their website from 2-4 weeks to 4-6 weeks; secondly, when they confirm an order, they should also state on the email the estimated delivery time for each particular plane.
If you are thinking of buying a kit from Shepherd, I would contact them first to get an updated delivery estimate, and in particular if the kit has an adjuster, confirm that these are in stock. One final note, on the web page that lists ordering terms, it states that you can request that only 25% of the price be charged to your credit card when the order is placed, with the balance charged upon shipment. This is not stated on the online order form and if you don’t request it, the full amount is charged when the order is placed.
Mark Schofield, Senior editor, FWW magazine.
Thanks Mark
Most of that story I had managed to discover over the past few weeks - and I'm still waiting, by the way - and I am prepared to cut these guys some slack, as I said in an early comment.
The key message for Doug and Ben is that this is no way to run a business - especially when your product is internationally tradeable and there's a lot of interest by potential new entrants. It won't matter how good their product is if another supplier enters the market with an equivalent product (not hard to do) and superior customer focus.
Modern metal-shaping technology means that a Chinese (or any other Asian) manufacturer could produce these kits - to the most exacting international standards - for a fraction of the cost. Shepherd doesn't have a God-given right to this business, and if they continue to fail their customers, they'll lose it!
Malcolm
http://www.macpherson.co.nz
Edited 11/30/2005 3:18 pm ET by Malcolm
Malcolm
Well stated. I feel the same way, as I stated in an earlier post. Please keep us, or at least me :), posted on how the plane kit goes. I'm interested in finding out if Shepherd Tool Co improves their customer service enough for my tastes, or if I have to continue waiting for someone else to enter this business.
Jeff
Well stated! The comments on their poor service have kept me from ordering. The invisible hand of capitalism will reach out and slap them. Get better, or get gone!
75% wastage and causing a delay while more was obtained; secondly, they transferred the manufacturing of the adjuster mechanism from a part-time employee to an outside engineering company.Yep.. I trained some 'new' kids to replace me! They went belly up!I loved working there till the new managers came in and did not know NOTHIN'!
They need to change their Cocobolo supplier. I have ordered lots of it for the past 6 years and have yet to get bad bunch.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
It's the 7th of December, and I'm still waiting.
And I haven't heard a word.
And they still have my money.
Malcolmhttp://www.macpherson.co.nz
I finally received my order today. I placed the order in mid August.
Shawn.
I'm glad you finally got it. That's absolutely rediculous. Have fun making it, and post some pics when you're done.
Merry Christmas,
Jeff
Mine left Canada a few days ago and is currently in the hands of NZ Customs (I've been tracking and tracing via Canada Post). If they release it, it may be here tomorrow!
Malcolm
http://www.macpherson.co.nz
Credit cards are not supposed to be charged until merchandise ships.
Edited 12/7/2005 6:42 am ET by BossCrunk
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