Hi all,
I am an amateur woodworking enthusiast learning as I go and when I have free time.
I am somewhat frustrated with my experiences using a shooting board. I have built a decent shooting board for myself, my Stanley 5½ plane slides nicely on it, but I just can’t get it to cut the end-grain in one continuous ‘push’. Even on narrow stock (sub 1 inch) it tends to get ‘stuck’ less than half way and scatter. I tried different things, adjusted the blade, resharpened it again, changed the size of the mouth etc, but still no luck.
What am I doing wrong? What else can I try? Is it all an issue with sharpening?
Thanks a lot for any thoughts/suggestions.
Milan
Replies
Since you say your plane slides nicely on the shooting board, I am going to assume it's not a binding issue with the board. Which leaves the plane as the culprit.
Cutting endgrain is a test for a plane and its owner's sharpening skills. Since you say you are enthusiasticly learning as you go I have no idea how proficient your sharpening skills are. Your Stanley plane is a mid-grade tool that often needs some tuning before it is capable of performing at its best. Have you flattened the back of your blade? Checked how the frog seats? Made sure the chip breaker is making solid contact and is properly adjusted? Is the cap screw tightened properly? Have you flattened the sole of the plane? What angle are you sharpening to? Are you using a microbevel? Can you plane effortlessly and cleanly on face grain?
Obviously, on a forum we can't answer any of these questions for you, only you can but I can say what I thought was sharp 40 years ago is laughable by what I do today. The problem lies in your plane so I suggest you scan the FW archives for some of the many fine articles abut setting up and tuning a plane and take another hard look at that.
I will add that while this may seem like a lot of hassle, once you learn to ride this bike you won't want to get off. Mastering hand planes gives me more satisfaction in woodworking than all my noisey power tools combined and it has made me a much better woodworker.
Hi esch5995 - that's a lot. Valid questions. So....
Have you flattened the back of your blade?
Not yet. Looks flat, but will double check.
Checked how the frog seats?
Yes, all good.
Made sure the chip breaker is making solid contact and is properly adjusted?
Yes, it does.
Is the cap screw tightened properly?
Yes.
Have you flattened the sole of the plane?
Yes
What angle are you sharpening to?
25 degrees for the main bevel and 30 for microbevel.
Are you using a microbevel?
See above.
Can you plane effortlessly and cleanly on face grain?
Well, I would not say it is clean and effortless, certainly not the way I can see in some of the videos on youtube.
I suspect it is down to sharpening. I tried hard (repeatedly) to make sure it is as sharp as I can make it, but perhaps I am still way off what it needs to be. Learning continues...
If you are not able to plane effortlessly on face grain then you need to focus on your sharpening. Start with flattening the back of the blade, I guarantee you the stock Stanley blade is not flat it all starts there.
Will do!
Start with getting the plane REALLY sharp. Next try to adjust the ergonomics of pushing that plane whilst on its side. You have to push down, in, and forward all at once and the plane is not designed for that. Clamping a handle onto the side of the plane to hook your hand on will help a lot.
Look up the Record T5 for an idea of what I mean. It's a roughly 41/2 to 5 size that is tapped for a side handle for use as a shooting plane.
How sharp is 'REALLY' sharp though? 😉 I thought I sharpened it well (did my best), but to be honest I don't have a direct comparison to see how my plane blades' sharpness compare...
Try using it to take some end grain shavings on pine, in a vice, rather than the shooting board. It will remove one of the variables.
Good tip. Will experiment a bit.
Two reasonable and easy indicators: you should be able to shave the hairs on your arm; and/or if you hold up a piece of paper in the air, the blade should be able to cut a clean path in it, without tearing.
Some people insist on more, others might say you can get away with less, but it’s a baseline, and if you’re not there, you know to work until you are. Eventually, you’ll just know/feel.
After all previous comments/suggestions are fully addressed and atttended to - I typically will lightly brush a 50/50 mix of H2O and DNA - on to the endgrain just prior to planing in the shooting board.
Thanks for the suggestion. I haven't heard that before. I will try that too!
Maybe I’m being thick, but what does DNA stand for in this context? The only DNA I typically apply to a workpiece is by accident, if the tool slips.
Assume we’re talking denatured alcohol.
Makes sense, thank you! Would normally call it methylated spirits this side of the Atlantic, hence the head-scratching, as I couldn't think of any words that would match. And yeah, meths works great for end grain.
Ideally, a shooting board will cut so that it is planing the workpiece at an angle. And the angle should be pushing the work down and toward the fence at the same time. You can put more force into the cut that way. True shooting planes have a skewed blade to help with this. And a lot more mass than a bench plane turned on its side.
But as others noted, sharpness and a light cut are always the primary focus.
Thank you John. Sharpness it is I guess (which is what I suspected).
It is easier to sharpen a bevel up plane like the Stanley 62 & 1/2 (block plane) sharp enough to cut end grain using a shooting board than any other plane I own. It can be micro adjusted easier to take thin slices than any other plane I own. It's only drawback is that it does not have much mass. Some day I want to make a wooden bevel up and skewed shooting board handplane.
Thanks ecyor. Will start looking for a good bevel-up plane then 😉
I have the L-N shoot board plane, and it's amazing. LV makes one too. I used a LV low angle jack a few times on a shooting board, and it was pretty good.
The bevel up Lie-Nielsen No. 62 is a fabulous plane and makes a very good shooter and you can easily extend its versatility with extra blades ground to different angles for different tasks. It's not cheap but worth every penny.
Along with sharpening and adjusting, wet the endgrain. Also make sure you don’t leave damp shavings in the plane.
Thank you Elmaduro. Will try that!
If you think your blade is sharp, you might try taking less of a bite out of the wood on each pass. Retract the blade until it no longer cuts and then slowly extend it until it just begins to make a light cut and start there. If you can't get it to take light cuts, then back to sharpening.
Thanks Jim. Yes, tried that, but with limited success. I suspect the challenge is both the sharpness (which I hoped I got right, but clearly not) and the type of plane.
The Stanley plane you're using isn't an ideal shooting plane as it's cutting angle is rather high for end grain; and it's likely that you can't easily adjust it to take the necessary fine & even cuts without some fettling. As others have said, the plane isn't configured for easy pushing on it's side either.
I made a shooting board and a plane to use on it this past year. The board is good and slippy on it's dead-flat runway but also has a rail to keep the plane pushed up against the working side of the shooting board. I only have to press the plane forward and down as the extra rail keeps the plane sole from drifting away from the cutting line.
Initially I used an extremely heavy jack plane to shoot with. Whilst this worked it seemed cumbersome and not that easy to push as it lacked a handle on the side (top, when shooting).
The wooden shooting plane I made is very light - a wooden lookalike to the Veritas mitre plane, using a Veritas block plane blade bevel-down and a Norris adjuster, on a bed set at just under 40 degrees.
It also has two pairs of grub screws in the sides, Like some Veritas planes, to lock the blade at exactly 90 degrees to the runway, with the Norris adjuster only controlling the blade depth, not it's side-to-side / skew orientation. The blade is also sharpened to be straight, no camber. A top handle (Veritas bought but could be home made) allows easy one hand pushing with the palm of the hand and the web between thumb and forefinger.
I can slice the nastiest hard timbers easily with this arrangement. I bring the plane up to the fence with the workpiece pressing against the front of plane sole in front of the blade. I slowly move the plane forward until the blade bites the workpiece then use my body weight and pushing-arm triceps to push the plane firmly forward right through the cut.
Whist this takes effort, it's not a huge push; and once the blade is cutting it keeps doing so with a very satisfying burrrrrr. Glassy shavings of between 1 -3 thou of an inch are easily taken on quite large cross sections.
The technique sometimes recommended - of a large and weighty plane fired hard at the workpiece in the hope that it's momentum will complete the cut - seems a bad technique to me. It's too ballistic and is likely to disorient both the plane and the workpiece. It shouldn't need a vast push or momentum to make the full cut.
I can take & post pics if you want.
Lataxe
Thank you so much for such a detailed response @Lat_axe. Very helpful. If you don't mind posting a couple of pics that would be much appreciated! Thanks again!
Hello Milan,
There are some pics and description of my shooting plane in this thread:
https://www.finewoodworking.com/forum/wooden-planes
from a while ago. I'll try and take a few more photos over the next day or so.
That Veritas horned side tote is a very good design and might be a means to improve the handling of any plane used for shooting, if mounted via a couple of holes drilled & tapped into it's side. Many Veritas planes do come with various threaded side holes for this and that but there's no reason (other than a lack of a drill & tap) why you couldn't make such threaded holes yourself in your Stanley. They can be plugged with grub screws when not in use to mount a shooting handle.
Lataxe
Thanks Lataxe! Looks very neat indeed!
Its very difficult to shoot end grain with a standard bench plane. Even if it is screaming sharp, a bench plane often is not up to the task. A bevel up plane is far better suited for it. A low angle block plane works well for smaller parts, and a bevel up plane like the Veritas jack plane, or smoother allows you to have blades of different angles very easily. To shoot end grain I use my Veritas smoother with a 25 degree bevel. With the 12 degree bedding angle, this is the same set up as a low angle block plane. You would have much more success with which ever type of Bevel up plane you chose!
Thanks WHMW. I thought about a bevel-up plane before, but was hoping I could avoid spending the money 😃 Seems like it's worth it.
Lol. Don't we all. The Veritas bevel up smoother is worth every penny. I use it a lot. Especially with the three blades they offer the versitility is amazing. You could save buying the blades and use one that you grind to different angles as needed, but that's time consuming and you'll use up the blade very quickly!
I love my bevel up Stanley 62 and 1/2 and Veritas and L/N ones, I believe, are even better. They are wonderful shaping tools and you will find yourself using them more and more. Be prepared for serious plane envy when you see Lataxe's pictures. I'm sure it is a super performer, and I'd like to see them too.
😉 More tools! More tools! Who does not like tools? 😉
Need to come up with creative reasons to justify the expense! 😃
Milan, I have had similar issues with my stanley 5 1/2 on the shooting board. Like you, I have also been very hesitent to go buy premium planes, so recently I bought a Veritas pm-11 replacement blade for my old stanley no.4 smoothing plane. I found that there is remarkable difference in the quality of steel. I thought I could get the old iron very sharp, but the new blade gets sharp like I had never experienced before. So for now at least, getting the replacement blade has saved me from spending big on a premium plane. Be aware that I also needed a chip breaker to go with the new blade, and that it is thicker, so it needs som frog ajustment.
I don't know if this will solve your issues, but for me least, it was even more helpful than I had imagined when I placed the order.
It’s a sharpness issue. Bevel up or down does not matter if the edge is sharp.
If you want to experiment, try a block plane, (bevel up) for small pieces. It is all about sharpness.
Sharpening can be dirt simple, wet and dry sandpaper or Diamond plates and Japanese natural stones.
Do use a $10 honing guide to start, later you can learn to freehand and a progression up to 6 or 8k at least.
You do not need to flatten the back of a plane blade if you use the David Charlesworth Ruler Trick/Technique, and if you do flatten the back, you only need to flatten a half inch to an inch from the edge.
What are you using to sharpen, what grits?
Thanks, used the ruler trick and that really helped I think!
Hey,
Just wanted to give a quick update - I carefully resharpened my plane again, made sure the back of the blade is truly flat and voilà: planing the end grain on a shooting board works pretty well now!
Thanks again for everyone's advice and tips!
I’ve been quietly following along, rooting for you from the cheap seats, as they say. Happy to hear you’re having some success.
In the FWIW category, I use the L-N #62 Low-Angle Jack as my shooting plane, and am quite pleased with the results. It’s not quite as expensive as many of their other planes, and it’s probably my overall favorite. (Though their #60-1/2 adustable mouth block plane is a beauty, and gets more frequent use.) LV and others of course make similar planes; of all my tools, I think planes are where more dollars spent (can) more readily translate into welcome results.
Thanks for the update. I always love to see how things turn out.
Try Rob Cosman’s method “32 Seconds to Sharp” on YouTube. He has a great teaching method and covers everything from tools to step by step demos.
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