Hey all,
I’m seeking opinions on wether to paint my shop floor or leave it as is, concrete. My first concern is getting a good paint job on a 40 year old floor. I know a significant amount of pretreatment will be required. Second concern is having a floor that is too slippery. The shop is a detached garage and I enter with wet feet a lot.
Pros and Cons! Does anybody like to give thier opinions around here :o)
Pro’s:
Looks good! Oh ya!
Easier to sweep and shopvac.
Seals floor from future contamination and moisture.
Con’s:
Slipping?
Work! Money! Time!
Any more?
This idea all started after I decided to drywall and paint my ceiling. I hope to be sanding and painting this weekend but now I hear were going to get a bunch of rain. We’ll see. Next step was, since the shop is a train wreck anyway, paint the concrete block walls too. Most of the walls fer sure, any maybe all the walls. I will need to disconnect the dust control pipes and move a 4′ x 10′ 300 to 400lb steel workbench with autojacks and a loaded up wall unit, just to mention the two huge ideas, oh ya, shaper, disk/belt I’ll stop now, hummm fun!
So far:
$60 for 12 sheets of 1/2″ drywall, more screws and a new little drywall saw. Some dumb @ss left the old saw laying in the backyard, oh ya that was me!
$40 to hire my 15 year old son’s help. The money assures motivation, and he’s only been paid half so far, video games are expensive.
$40 for a second B&D 14.4V Firestorm screwgun package.
AND! $197 stinking dollars for 1 gal. drywall primer, 5 gal. concrete block primer/flat paint, 5 gal. semi gloss paint, 6 pack paint rollers, large 4 mil plastic sheet/roll and 6 tubes of caulk.
Did I forget anything, oh ya, I need Jim Beam.
Enjoy, Roy
Edited 5/2/2003 1:04:18 PM ET by ROY_INMD
Replies
A vote for paint. A nonskid additive added to the paint will take care of the slipping problem. Prep work is everything. The brand and type of paint you should have prep instructions but chances are you'll have to acid etch the floor. Grease and oil spots are killers and have to be removed for a good job. A lot of work but I think you'll be pleased when you're finished.
A while back the wife wanted to get creative with our bathroom. She put down 1-part epoxy base coat and sponge painted 3 other colors on top. Big patches peeled right off. The guy at home depot didn't tell her about the prep. To compensate he gave her all the prep-stuff and a primer, gratis. We stripped it, did the prep and did the whole thing over. Looks good and is holding up well.
John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne
I take it your feet don't give you any problem after standing on the cement for awhile? Ain't you lucky! I cannot take standing on cement, but also had continuing frustration with dirt, dust and mositure, hence the application of interlocking rubber floor mats. They are wonderful, easy to vaccum, comfortable to walk, and if necessary, kneel on, and easily replaced or removed when needed.
Seems to me I've heard of/seen rubbery sort of paint you can apply that has non-slip properties. Hmmmmmmm.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hey FG:
Noticed for the first time that Rustoleum is offering to consumers an epoxy based paint kit for garage floors. Traditionally, those paints have been used for cover airplane hangar floors and were available only through specialized commercial suppliers. We have it on the floor of my company's hangar. The pilots and techs there tell me the stuff wears like iron. Very infrequently need to repaint. It is very attractive.
In fact, I may have seen the Rustoleum version advertised in a recent Fine Homebuilding edition.
Robbie
Edited 5/2/2003 6:22:18 PM ET by Robbie
Robbie,
I put the stuff Rustoleum makes on the basement/shop floor a couple years ago and really like it. The epoxy makes it incredibly tough and it rolled on with NO lap marks - an amazing feat for me. First time I ever painted anything and had it look better at the end than it did in the beginning!
Skip the little sprinkles. They give a nice terrazzo effect, but don't stay on long. The fellow at the Home Depot told me they used it on their lunch room floor and the same thing happened.
One final consideration. Although it's not marketed as a non-slip surface, it really isn't very slippery when it gets wet.
Jeff
I don't seem to have any problem currently with standing/ working on concrete, though my typical "exposure" is around 6 hours or less at a time. Oddly, my only injury to knees happened while screenprinting on a wood floor nonetheless!
Mark
"...'exposure' is around 6 hours or less at a time." That would be an eternity for moi. Consider yourself lucky to have such sound feet!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jamie -
Working on concrete long haul is a lot less stressful on the feet and legs with the proper shoes, I think. If I work out in my current garage/shop in sneakers, even with the carpet pat in front of the lathe, I feet and legs suffer. On the other hand, if I wear my good Red Wing work shoes (yes, with *hard* soles) I don't notice it nearly as much. I've spent a whole day turning stuff on the carpet over concrete floor with the Red Wings and haven't had any Dear Dennis letters from the feet or legs.
Admittedly, one day (at a time) is not a career. But you might think about footwear out in your shop??
As for painting the floor (topic restoration) I think a lighter color than natural concrete would help with lighting if that's an issue. The slab in my new shop is currently curing out with two coats of Cure & Seal so I'll have to wait until it dissapates before I give any thought to painting. The finisher put a superb finish on it and with the rain we had this weekend, the floor is really nice and flat. I'm not sure I'll paint it, though, since I'll have quite a bit of natural light and the finish is just so, so nice the way it is.
...........
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Dennis,
"Two coats of Cure and Seal", is that one of those new concrete floors that looks polished and glassy. I like! Do you think the 'seal' is complete, I mean can you spill a cup of coffee without stains.
I'll be painting a 40 year old monster, I'm just looking for an update.
Enjoy, Roy
Roy -
Not meaning to confuse you with the different screen name - logged on with IE tonight for a change and .... well, technical issues aside...
Cure & Seal is somewhat 'fugitive' in that properly applied, that is without ponding or in excess of the recommended coverage, it tends to dissapate over time 'cept for what soaks into and reacts with the surface of the concrete. Mind you, I'm no expert on concrete chemistry, and Cure & Seal (brand name, BTW) is not strictly speaking a hardener per se. It serves, as I understand it, to inhibit the loss of moisture of the concrete during the curing process. It's very much a volitile substance. For instance, last weekend I rolled on a second coat on my new shop floor. The slab is open to the air since there are no sidewalls or roof on the shop yet. The plumber showed up to work on the house and as he drove down the sideroad to my place, he thought something had spilled in his van - the fragrance is somewhat potent and ... less than fragrant.
There are lots of products out there for hardening existing concrete slabs. I used to know some brand names of a few ... we had a problem with our garage floor when we bought our current house. The concrete was way, way too wet when poured and the surface was 'dusting' pretty badly. Plus I could drive a 16d nail into it without too much trouble. I found and got some material that I rolled on and it catalyzed (for lack of a better term) into the top portion of the slab and cured the dusting problem.
I just did a google search on "concrete sealers" and got 3400+ potential sites to review. If you're at all interested in the technology of concrete, drop by
http://www.moxie-intl.com/tutorial.htm
for a little info on the subject.[email protected]
Thanks to everyone for the replys so far. Looks like Jeff and Forestgirl are the only thumbs down votes or just not doing it themselves, yet :o).
I knew this would be an ordeal and many have confirmed that. I would like to come up with a pretreatment that will not require me to use the garden hose in the shop. I have a flat lot so drainage would be slow and add to that the drying time. The driveway is narrow concrete strips with grass in the middle so space is a bit limited for getting things out of the shop. No cars to deal with, they don't go in the garage. I'm hoping to do the floor in two stages, front half, back half.
Drying time: Man! Friday night I did what I had hoped would be my last coat of drywall compound on the ceiling joints. The drying had been so slow of the previous weeks' work that I set a box fan blowing across the ceiling and the larger of the two attic fans on all night. I just shut off the lights and left the side door open all night. Didn't like to do that but it helped alot. The backyard is dark, you can't tell if the door is open or closed until your right up on it. The whole ceiling except one strip or so was ready for sanding of Sat. Ain't finished yet, wore my sorry @ss out, took Sun. off.
Enjoy, Roy
Oh Roy, mine's not a "thumbs down" -- if you saw my shop floor, you'd understand why I don't bother! Very rough, textured surface with 40-50 years' worth of wear and dirt. I just swept it out and covered it up!!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Roy
I'm not really a thumbs down.
Just know that I'm lazy and wouldn't go to that much trouble for ####shop floor.
Jeff
Jeff and ForestGirl,
Oh, I know what your talking about and maybe I'll wimp out after I'm finished with the ceiling and walls, a lot of work with no WW. But that 40 year old floor is discusting and it just bugs me to no end. And its going to look worse with the rest painted, ####!
"#### shop floor"!LOL, When I told my wife I was drywalling the ceiling she said "Your Gonna Do What?".
Enjoy, Roy
Roy, You want to talk about tough garage floors? I live in a bungalow built in 1920 that originally had a 1 car garage. In 1960, one of the previous owners made it a 2 car garage with a 10 ft extension on the side. The extension now houses the laundry room and my main bench and cabinets. I was told the owner did the work himself, and man does it show. to save money, he poured the new concrete AROUND the 1 car slab! Needless to say, things don't quite match up, so moving stuff on mobile bases can be exciting. The other thing he did was pitch the driveway towards the garage door! Whenever it rained I'd get an inch or so of water in the garage.
Solutions.... I dropped a chisel once (brand new 2 cherries) and I built a raised floor in my bench area with sleepers, subfloor and covered with 80 year old oak flooring recycled from my neighbors house. The drive way was removed during a landscaping project and the flooding was solved. As for the main garage floor... I'll probably move before I spend the $$$ to fix that!
Dr. BillThey would not call it REsearch if you only had to do it once, that would be just search!
Ohhhhh, I've been the full route with physical therapy, specially selected shoes, and orthotics. These days, as long as I don't stand still too long, keep my posture good, and my back stretched out, I do OK most of the time.
Nothing more to contribute to the "topic" as I doubt this floor will ever be painted.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
The mats definitely help. G.O.F. (gimpy old f__) here. Not that old really (quickly approaching half a century) but have had a knee repaced and a hip and another knee due at some point. It would be impossible for any length of time without the mats and good footwear (Redwings).
Dear First Lady of the Forest: Jamie guess our Buddy Dennis hit the nail on the head with wearing good work shoes when ever working on concrete for extended amount of time, I wear either Red Wings or Wolverene work boots cause IM on my feet for 8 to 12 hrs on concrete at work & found that the cheapie boots you get at K-Mart or Wally world just dont cut it..I was wondering if you suffer from back troubles also?? thought maybe your horse riding in past years might of contributed to the problem..I had back surgery 5 yrs ago had 3 discs taken out soo I watch what I do & try to be kind to my back & feet..
ToolDoc
"...thought maybe your horse riding in past years might of contributed...." HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Oh, just a bit! Any number of tumbles, and more than a few kicks from unruly youngsters, but the icing on the cake was being pancaked into the ground by a thoroughbred mare falling across my back. Never was quite the same after that.
What I've learned from PT, though, is that a great deal of our foot comfort can actually be affected by posture, especially having firm stomach muscles that keep the tummy (I believe men call it "the gut", LOL) in, and the back in good position. It all gets reflected through the leg joints down to the feet. Off course, having flat feet (who, me?) makes it a challenge even with good posture.
I used to spend $130 or so on the athletic shoes designated by the medical people (heel stabilization, arch support, and other good stuff provided by high-tech running shoes), but I happened to find some lightweight hiking-style shoes at Costco that fit my feet perfectly and give the support needed. They've been a big help to the pocketbook!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jamie: see you got a chuckle out of that,knew i was on the right track :)
ToolDoc
I notice it in my back, hips and legs much more than my feet. I've had a large mat in my most used area in front of the tablesaw for years. Those mats make such a big difference. I'm going to add some more soon.
Enjoy, Roy
Have you ever walked on those floor mats we were talking about in this thread (click here)? They are very comfortable, quite affordable, and flexible in design. I posted a picture in post #4, but the server isn't coughing it up at the moment -- maybe it'll be there by the time you go to check it out.
At one time, it was just my back that gave me trouble on hard surfaces, then I developed a severe case of "plantar fasciitis" -- common to basketball players and sometimes baseball, I got mine carrying too much heavy stuff up and down stairs when moving a 1200 sq. ft. business mostly by myself. The ol' feet have never been the same!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG,
I've been watching the thread you mentioned and have been eyeing them at Costco and other places for awhile. I love the large mat I have now, makes such a big difference after a long day in the shop. I'm thinking of moving the existing mat around the left side of the table saw and doing the entire back area (workbench to workbench (side to side) and table saw to shaper & disk/belt sander (front to back)) about 8' square all in mats. My only real concern in doing this is two plywood boxes on casters that roll under one workbench and I was thinking of building two more for the other bench. I would really like to keep my monster storage areas (small shop survival). Lifting them up 3/8" or so onto a map would not be a big deal. I'm talking about more long term storage and not daily use.
I want my shop back!
Enjoy, Roy
I was worried about the caster issue at first, especially because most of the casters currently in my shop are pretty small. I was surprised to find that they roll quite well on the mats. You might want to try leaving the "border" off of the mats that are right in front of your boxes -- the little notches would maybe provide an easy "in" space for the wheels.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Roy,
All of the big paint mfg's have products for your application. Sherwin Williams is nation wide, Kelly Moore is West coast, to mention a couple. The previous note about the additive is right on for the anti-slip factor. I would stay away from the warehouse, diy store stuff (just my opinion). We just finished the garage floor in one of our rental houses with a product called "Hot Trax" that we got from our friendly Kelly Moore guys. Looks great, almost flat finish and non-slip.
Don't recall if you mentioned one "Pro"; brighter shop (use a very light color)
Good prep + good primer = good finish!
Enjoy your new shop!!
Mack
Thanks Mack, I plan on shopping around. Just read a few labels so far on floor paint in Home Depot while I was buying my ceiling and wall paint. I learned a long time ago to never use cheap paint, it ain't worth it. There is an SW paint store in my area I will visit.
Enjoy, Roy
Roy
I just paint mine with Porch & Floor. Yep, add the non-silp particles or you'll bust your hiney. Trust me on that one. <G> Get all the grease and whatever off first as posters have stated. An I use the inter-locking mats in areas around the machines.
I do re-paint once a year. Catch around the walls and floor with a 3" brush and roll the main portion with a very heavy nap roller. Any little dimples that don't take paint, just use the 3" brush on. Got about 4 coats on their now as have been using the paint for awhile.
Good Luck with decisions...
sarge..jt
Roy,
I vote paint also... besides easier to sweep, I think I sweep more often! It's also easier to find something that's fallen on the floor.
Ever since I painted the walls and floor, I could swear that I just "like" being out there a little more and it shows in the quality of the stuff I do.
But, I also vote for some cushioning... I went with a "runner-type" product that you buy by the foot. It's about 2 1/2' x 3/4" thick and you have them cut it to what ever length you want.
You're Dr. Galikowitz? ..... YES I AM...
Doc,
"I just "like" being out there a little more"
Perfectly worded and so so true.
Enjoy, Roy
Roy I have a mixture I have used to clean before I repaint or to clean concrete and have had successful results. 1 quart of bleach, 3 oz. tri--sodium-phosphate, 1 oz. household detergent ( Tide etc.) and 3 qts. warm water. Mop or spray on move around with a broom a little, no need to scrub, let set 5 minutes and rinse off.
You might still want to etch with muriatic (sp) acid before painting. We have a back entrance to where I attend church that several people had slipped and fell in wet weather through the years. I had it painted with a non-slip paint 5 years ago, no one has fell since. The paint was bought at Lowes and the non-slip additive looked like sand.
Gods Peace
les
Lot's of good advise in here, so I'll keep my response short. Here's the link to the best floor paint going, it is a true industrial two-part epoxy. I agree with everyone else that has suggested that you stay away from the cheap paint.
http://www.griotsgarage.com/catalog.jsp?L1=L1_3000&L2=L2_3080&L3=L3_3080
A little more expensive but worth every peney. The prep (wash, acid etc.) is tough, this is one of those jobs that you don't want to do twice.
Enjoy!
Roy:
I too have a concrete floor in my shop that I painted with garage floor paint, the same as that used on the garage where we park our cars. Its been on the garage floor for 12 years and other than where the tires set, there is no other signs of wear. The paint in my shop has only been down for about 5 years so I can not tell you when I'll have to repaint.
I suggest that you use paint for garage floors since they are a little harder and don't interact with rubber. No matter what you use, you'll have to condition the concrete before painting. A light color paint makes the shop brighter and it does help finding those little items that fall on them.
That said, if I was building from scratch again, I'd figure a way to have a wooden floor just for the foot and leg comfort.
Roger
I never bothered to do anything with the concrete floor in my shop.
For me it works.
The new addition I'm putting on will be a wood floor.
I'll probably give it one coat of Poly to seal it.
Then, Never touch it again. Just let it wear as is.
Jeff
wood shops should have wood floors. period!!!!..... chisels drop , planes fall, Saws seem determined to use gravity again and again.. besides it's easier on your feet
use 3/4 inch plywood. and tap cons and glue for an inexpensive floor. 1/2 inch if your budget is insanely tight..
so what if the floor is a little damp. it'll take years for things to rot, if you are that worried use some 5 mil poly under the plywood..
Not to beat a dead horse, but that's another thing I like about the rubber floor -- I fear not if I get clumsy and drop the Incra miter gauge or other special toy.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
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