Replies

1. 
   IMERC | Nov 16, 2003 02:08am | #1

   Take this question to Breaktime and put it in the energy section.

   BTW welcome forum slowski.

    

   Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....

2. 
   PlaneWood | Nov 16, 2003 09:53pm | #2

   Slowski -

   What part of the country are you in?  Do you need lots of heat?  What about air conditioning?  What about air flow and dust control?

   There are lots of natural gas shop heaters that hang from the ceiling with blowers.  They do need to be vented to let the combustion gases escape.  And what about air intake for combustion?  Can that be ducted in from the outside?

   Will you want to add additional air filters to help control shop dust?  What about humidity control?

   If your in the southern climate, then an electric heap pump, with or without resistance heating added, might be an affordable alternative.  Those can mount in the wall or window and don't need venting or gas plumbing.  One nice thing about these is if one quits working then you can just slide the old one out and a new one in.  No high priced service technican required. Or, what about a small central heater/AC unit that sets outside on a pad with holes cut through the wall for the air circulation? 

   Lots of questions, I know, but I just put them forward to help you get oriented.  Give it some thought and write down the questions that you need answered.

   Also, FYI, a 12000 BTU thru-the-wall AC cools my 600 sq ft shop well (Houston), but my DC sets outside and will suck out the cool air pretty quickly.

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)
   PlaneWood

1. 
   slowski | Nov 21, 2003 05:05am | #14

   I'm in Colorado at 9200'.  I don't need AC , just heat in the winter.  I was thinking of a direct vent sealed combustion chamber heater.  Combustion air would be supplied from the exterior and vented back out through the direct vent pipe.  Any thoughts on the size of a heater needed to heat 480 sq. ft. 50,000 to 75,000 BTU's?

1. 
   PlaneWood | Nov 21, 2003 08:35am | #16

   40,000 btu minimum if VERY well insulated with triple or double pane windows.  60,000 probably reasonable.

   9200 feet elevation?  Gads, I would die at that elevation!

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood

3. 
   bleubassplyr | Nov 16, 2003 10:17pm | #3

   Hi,

   A couple years ago (fall 2001) I built a stand alone shop in order to get the dust out of my basement. It has been the best thing I've done yet. I have a natural gas heater made by Empire. The model number is DV-35-2SG. It's 35,000 BTU's and handle's my shop easily. My shop is 16' x 24', 384 Square feet. I live just outside Boston, so there are some very cold times during the winter. This is a direct vent unit that cost about $550. at the time. It has worked flawlessly. It is direct vent so there is no possibility of any type of combustion. It was easy to install. Good luck.

   Keep away from people who belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great.-Mark Twain
1. 
   JohnWW | Nov 17, 2003 12:22am | #4

   Slowski2,

   I just bought and installed an Empire direct vent gas heater in my shop.  I bought it from: http://www.houseneeds.com/index.htm  They're a small Vermont company, and I was very pleased with the service and quality of the unit, but their web site is a bit lame, they don't have a good picture of the Empire heaters.  The heaters are made in Argentina, but Empire is a long established American company, so I wouldn't expect to have problems if service or parts are needed. 

   One problem with all types of heaters that generate high temperatures is that they incinerate wood dust and fumes from finishing, which will add to the air pollution inside of your shop.  The only way to avoid this problem is to use a lower temperature system such as a baseboard hot water set up, but these aren't nearly as cheap and simple to install. 

   The ultimate system is to have a heated floor but they need to be installed when the slab is poured or a new floor needs to be installed over the heating loops.

   I suggest buying the largest model, 20,000 BTU if you live in a cold climate, since it will quickly warm up the shop if you turn the heat way down anytime when you aren't working there.

   Hope this helps, feel free to ask for more information if you need it.

   John W.

    

2. 
   slowski | Nov 21, 2003 05:08am | #15

   Thank you for the information.  Much appreciated......

4. 
   triplenet | Nov 17, 2003 12:29am | #5

   I installed a free standing heatpump unit.  The installer said it is used mainly for aux. HVAC for offices.  It has to be installed near a wall as the compressor is in the unit, so you need intake and exhaust air for the compressor.  We have automatic louvers that open when it operates. It was freight damaged, so I got a good deal on it.  I think it is 2.5 ton.  I really haven't used it for AC, but it heats 2500 SF shop.  I'm in Northwest Arkansas.  I keep it set about 50 degrees and bump it up to 60's when working.  Last year was the first winter and we had over a week of low 'teens and it worked fine.  Shop is 2X6 with cellulose insulation.   I keep thinking I should install a wood stove also.

1. 
   jcousins | Nov 17, 2003 05:59pm | #7

   bob - i just installed a reznor - ceiling mount heater in my shop - about 1100 sq. ft. it's a direct vent - pretty low profile - and does a great job of keeping the shop dry - and warms up quickly when i need it. i was also looking at the modine "hot dawg." - they seem about the same - just that the dealer in my area could get the reznor a little easier.

   am very happy with the results.

   jerry

5. 
   philtertip | Nov 17, 2003 03:02pm | #6

   I used the Rannai 1004 in my 24 x 36 stand alone shop.

   http://www.rinnaina.com/Heaters_dv_1004fa_Main_Body_Frames.htm

   I like that it draws its combustion air from outside (not so much worry about dust and fumes) and also that has a programmable thermostat.

   I probably could have gone with the next size smaller.

   Good luck.

1. 
   JohnWW | Nov 17, 2003 07:58pm | #8

   Philtertip and Slowski,

   The problem I was referring to with dust and fumes hitting the hot surfaces of a gas heater would occur whether or not the heater was a direct vent type. 

   The heat exchanger's surface heats up to around, I'd guess, 600 to 700 degrees at least.  Dust or fumes burn or react at those temperatures when they hit the exchanger's surface as the shop's air flows through the unit.  Some solvents can break down into a really nasty smog. 

   The advantage to any of the hot water systems is that the radiators never get above the temperature of boiling water and nothing burns or breaks down at that temperature.

   John W.

1. 
   Norse | Nov 18, 2003 12:16am | #9

   JohnW is absolutely correct in what he writes about dust and fumes hitting the heat exchanger. Hot water systems with the boiler in an adjacent building are by far, the safer way to go when its possible or practical. However, I think there is an advantage to a direct vent with combustion air drawn from outside over an open flame heater in the shop like some of the above mentioned heaters. Nonetheless, all of these require better than average house keeping and and an extra measure of common sense.

2. 
   slowski | Nov 21, 2003 04:47am | #12

   Thanks for the information.  I hear what your saying.  I hadn't thought of that situation, but it is something to be considered.  Thanks again.....

   Edited 11/20/2003 8:54:27 PM ET by slowski

2. 
   slowski | Nov 21, 2003 04:43am | #11

   Thank you for the info. I'll try their website......

6. 
   fdampier5 | Nov 18, 2003 12:57am | #10

   seriously consider using in floor radiant heat.. the advantages are fantastic.. 

       First you don't need to heat the shop as hot to feel as comfortable.  

       Second  stand on cold concrete all day (and evan if you have the temp up to 75 the floor will be cold with a heater) and your legs will ache.. now stand on a floor that is heated with radiant heat.. wow!!  much nicer!

         You can do it too very much on the cheap.. get some pex  (Wirsbo is a trade name used often) and put it down in the concrete when they are pouring the floor.  Then use a water heater (either gas or electric)  and a small pump to circulate it.    You'll need a mixing value and a thermostat.  that's about all there is afor a simple unit.. you can get a lot fancier if you'd like but I like to keep things simple..

     If you use an electric water heater you don't need to worry about explosive dust or vapors from finishing materials..   you don't need to worry about getting another service brought into the shop  (presumably you are going to have electricity)  so once you eliminate those costs suddenly it becomes affordable and once you have it you'll find it's efficency.  tons less expensive to operate than most other heating meathods.. Vastly more comfortable to work on.

1. 
   slowski | Nov 21, 2003 04:52am | #13

   Interesting idea.  I hadn't heard of that one.  Is there any more info out there on that type of system?

1. 
   fdampier5 | Nov 21, 2003 02:09pm | #17

   Sure!  switch over to breaktime and click on heating and energy.  radiant floors or wirsbo  is discussed all of the time.. it's becoming a very popular way to heat homes..