Will be installing lighting in new shop and am curious about best way to go about this. Found one article in archives but aside from general intro, really not to helpful. Should I go with fluorescent or something else? Install after drywall is up or before? How many for good lighting and best bulbs for color (building is 18×24 with 10′ ceilings)? In what direction should lights hang? 4′ tandems or 8′ fixtures? Have 3 windows and a french door with two of those windows above bench. If you all need more info, let me know.
Chris
Replies
Florecent tubbing in 8'ers are a good way to go
yep I change my oil every 3000
miles or when I get bored...
which ever comes first
I know there have been a couple of long threads here about lighting. I prefer the most natural light possible, using the newer fluorescent bulbs in light fixtures that are not backwards compatible with the old fluorescents. The ballasts are different.
Many people also use task lighting above workbenches and such. I envy your 10' ceilings with drywall. Wow. ;-)
Thanks. Can you give a bit more detail with regards to new bulbs and backwards compatibility?Chris
FG is exactly right! Look for fixtures with T12 tubes. I recently changed the fixtures in my shop (from T8's) and the difference is incredible! The light from the T12's is so much more like natural light!
I've had enough birthdays that I need as much light as possible (more than was necessary just a few years ago), so I urge you to plan ahead and put in or at least stub wire for your future lighting needs. You may want to wire the fixtures in such a way that every other one is switched together (in an alternating fashion). For example: 8 fixtures with 4 each per switch.
All of the safety features ever invented will do no good at all if you can't see what you're doing.
Edited 9/23/2008 8:57 am ET by heartwould
Sorry that first post was scant on details -- I can never keep the numbers in my brain and wasn't up for a trip out to the shop. I part company with Heartwould, in that I like the more modern T8 bulbs, and I buy the natural-light version. T8's use less electricity for one thing. If they are put in the fixtures that only accept T8's (are not backwards compatible with the bigger bulbs), and it's a quality fixture, the ballasts are supposed to have less buzzing problems and such.
I know there are some very knowledgeable people here at Knots when it comes to lighting. Hopefully, they'll stop by soon and flood you with numbers and information! Gotta go, early meeting this morning! forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
The T 12 "daylight" tubes have made my shop much, much brighter--and much better on the eyes. However, FG has me again! Here is a chart with a breakdown between the T 8's and the T 12's:
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/femp/procurement/eep_fluortube_lamp.html
I bought a whole bunch of these
http://www.amazon.com/Lithonia-Lighting-232-120-GESB/dp/B000IOFIPU
and put some high CRI, 3000K T8 bulbs in them. They work very well. I like the 3000K bulbs because they are similar in color temperature to incandescent bulbs, so my shop doesn't look like an office. I know some people like the daylight bulbs better, but they are too blue for my taste.
I'd suggest you try several different bulbs in the fixture of your choice and see which color temperature you like best. That's what I did.
If and when the time ever comes for me to build a free standing shop and get out of my basement, I'll surely give your suggestion a try! Thanks!
Kind of confusing...You say T-12 but your link shows the T-8s to be cheaper. T-12 is old technology. T-8 is newer and more efficient. Even better is the T-5. The higher you get to 6500 Kelvin is closer to daylight. You cannot mix and match bulbs and fixtures. T-5 are expensive and you can even get a dimmer, expensive, but neat. I know of an architect who uses the T-5 with a dimmer that as the sunlight gets brighter during the day it automatically turns down the lamps to keep it balanced. Saves electricity.
http://www.hydrofanatics.com/watt-6500-kelvin-fluorescent-lamp-p-262.html
FYI Standard Florescent ballasts ARE NOT DIMABLE!!!! However you can purchase a "dimming ballast". Lighting that dims with the increase of sunlight is needs a dimming panel/photocell. see Lithonia's products for more info. T-8 lighting with 5000K+ is more than antiquate for a home shop. I would recommend that you use lamp guards to protect from breakage due to a flying piece of wood. Never use an incandescent light in a shop with high dust unless you have a "Jelly Jar" fixture to keep sparks from a breaking light from igniting wood dust.On a side note, before wiring a home shop, consult with a qualified electrician, I have noticed on occasion that FWs has diagrammed not only dangerous, but non-code compliant articles. The # 2 cause of accidental death in the US is electrocution, after falls.Ken P.E.
Consulting Electrical Engineer
Edited 9/25/2008 10:46 pm ET by kenaslan
The # 2 cause of accidental death in the US is electrocution, after falls.
Where did you come up with this?
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SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES...THEY ARE NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING, BUT...THEY STILL BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN YOU PUSH THEM DOWN A FLIGHT OF STAIRS
You are not telling me anything I don't know!!!
Just remember that the number after the T is the number of eight's of the lamp diameter.
T8=8/8=1" T12=12/8=1 1/2"
I like the 5000K 92CRI daylight/sunshine lamps the best.
Edit: T12 fixtures and ballasts are being phased out and will not be available in early 2010. T5 fixtures are the latest technology and sometimes referred to as metric as the diameter is just under 16mm.
T5=5/8"=0.625"¡Ö16mm
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
"Life is not a success only journey." Dr. Phil
Edited 9/25/2008 12:30 pm ET by JerryPacMan
I'll only add get electronic ballast or the buzzing will drive you nuts! I did my shop in a garage and it sounded like Frankenstein lab. The colder the shop the louder the sound. Now that was years ago and I found out why the wide range in price. The more expensive had the good ballast (quiet). Secondly, I did not heat the shop (garage) at full temp till I was ready to use, and it impacted the amount of light put out. As they warm up, they got brighter. Like I said that was 5 years ago, so the technology could be much better now.
Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Edited 9/25/2008 9:40 am by bones
Hi - my situation is a bit different.We have started building what will be my shop, garage, and guest quarters on a property near Collingwood Ontario. The shop will become my shop proper when we build the house. I am fitting it now however with what I will need when it is a shop. Lighting is a bit of a conundrum. I know the general recommendation is fluorescent lighting but that doesn't seem to work right now as we will be using the space as living space for short periods until the house is built. Do any of you have experience using other than fluorescent fixtures in a shop?The shop is 20 x 24 with west facing windows. The ceilings are 9' to the joist and 10' to the undersurface of the floor above. The 12" bay between joists is an opportunity I think.I want to light to 100 fc (my eyes and the rest of me are over 40). It may be that we put in the lighting to accomodate the shop fixtures eventually required, however, I really want to do all I can to minimize redos a few years down the road?
That's an interesting challenge you have on your hands, Mark, not one I feel qualified to give advice on, but I will toss out these fixtures, perhaps you could find some locally and give them a look-see. They are halogens in a tubular hanging fixture, I just picked up a couple from a friend who's clearing out her husband's shop. They might fit the bill.
I've found them online in both 600 watt (two 300 watt lamps) and 300 watt (you can do the math ;-)
View Imageforestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Interesting fixture - thanks - I'll see what I can track down
http://images1.hdpi.com/product/regent-shop-light-HSL300.jpgI have two of these in my shop. Mine are dual mode 300 w or 600 w. One is over my table saw and the other is over one of my work benches. They do a great job of lighting up the area, but the pull chain mechanism in one of them keeps jamming. In fact I have two because the second one was the replacement of the one that jams. The company I bought them from sent the replacement and told me to keep the original fixture. One big drawback to them is the heat they give off. I don't use them on hot days, but they are great in the winter.Edited 10/3/2008 10:30 pm ET by basset-hound
Edited 10/3/2008 10:30 pm ET by basset-hound
Hi, Basset. I haven't looked at mine closely enough to know if they're 2-level wattage or just one. They were virtually free, and haven't had time to hang them yet.
For this winter, I'm reallllllly looking forward to the heat they throw off. In the past, I've used halogen work light to warm myself up, or help dry a finish. These hanging fixtures will be much less intrusive. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Sorry about the (perhaps) bad news. I installed several of those about 5 - 6 years ago. Then they began to fail - repeatedly. I finally gave up and replaced them with T-8s.Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
Oh, well, next to nothing invested, so that wouldn't kill me. They were added onto some plywood I relieved her of for a nominal sum, one of which turned out to have quartersawn oak on one side.
How did they fail? Did the bulbs keep burning out?? forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
If I recall (it was several years ago) the bulbs burned out -or lost 'contact' and I couldn't restore the wiring for some reason. Rockler replace some fixtures and bulbs, but I grew tired of the hassle. Maybe later models are better quality.I brought this to your attention so you wouldn't rush out and buy a bunch more until you had some experience with the first set.Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
Thanks, Frosty. I don't think I'd want more than two, just for special high-light needs, maybe over the table saw and where I do measuring and marking. I'm assuming the light wont disperse as much as the fluorescents do. I'll let you know how well they work, might hang one of them today just to get some more heat in the shop! (not ready fire up the pellet stove)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Whatever light fixtures you choose for the interim, at least make sure to pre-wire for the fluorescents that will be installed down the road.
Myself, I'd just go ahead and install the fluorescents now and not use 'em while you're living in the space -- just use floor lamps, etc., to light it for the interim when you don't want/need the "operating room" lighting.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
PS: Also, installing them now may help to keep the plan for a workshop from getting stalled at the "temporary" living space stage. Wouldn't want a workshop to take a back seat to mere "living" space! ;-)
Edited 10/2/2008 7:54 am ET by MikeHennessy
Hmmm - great analogy - I work in an operating room in my "real" job. And operating room lighting is what I will need - installing the fixtures seems like a great idea up front.BTW - I loved in Pittsburgh for a year in the early 90's - in Shadyside and worked at Shadyside Hospital. It was a great year and I was sad to leave the place. Far better than I had expectedMark
Yep -- Pittsburgh: The place people hate to come to, but once here, they don't ever wanna leave. And what with global warming, our climate is now nice enough to make most resort towns jealous. ;-)
And Shadyside is a pretty cool place, as far as hospitals go - just the right balance between big and small.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
The newest are T-5 units. The up front cost is high but they can pay for themselves in less energy used in a short while. A lot of warehouses here are converting to them.
I have 8 twin tube t5 fixtures 4100K bulbs in a 2 car garage. They are wired to come on in pairs (4 light levels total). white painted drywall
A little pricey but I would do it again. Love the light.
I previously had 6 t12 cool white fixtures. Day and night difference.
Great for seeing detail and painting and finishing.
Age 54 (mid life eyes) DA
The goal is not to
look professional but to be professional.<!----><!---->
Age 54 (mid life eyes)
I like the way you think!
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SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES...THEY ARE NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING, BUT...THEY STILL BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN YOU PUSH THEM DOWN A FLIGHT OF STAIRS
I started out with regular lights, then I added reflectors, which created hot spots if you were standing near by, now I have the florescent daylight bulbs that take a minute to come up to brightness but everything is just like out side, bright! and clean looking.
The key to good shop lighting is having it where you need it.
Stationary Miter saw?
Table saw?
Main work bench.
These are High priority areas.
And of course, if switched properly, you CANT have too much LIGHTING.
Chris,
I'd go with fluorescents for most of the lighting, with the tubes running parallel to the direction of feed of most machines to minimize shadows. You can get full spectrum bulbs, but I don't think they're necessary save for the finishing area, perhaps. You might prefer incandescents for task lighting.
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris,
I think that lighting is best looked at in terms of color temperature. In my opinion, you'll want neutral lighting provided by a fluorescent tube. A temperature rating around 3400K will provide the most neutral lighting.
As a reference:
Incandescent Bulbs = Warm
Halogen = Neutral
How many is another question. For me, my eyesight isn't getting worse, the world is just getting dimmer. So I've got quite a bit lighting!
Anyone have a good source for 8 tandem T8 fixtures (nothing fancy, perhaps with reflector) and bulbs in the 4000 range? Price around here (knoxville TN) seems to be about $50. Thanks for all of your input.
Chris
I'm in this same spot. The electrician suggested installing after the wall finishing was completed...This way if you want to make changes, it's out in the open. I'm going about every 4 feet for outlets and a run of lights on both sides of the peak. I was going to use T-5's but there seem to be good suggestions for me to look into. With the electrician's suggestion, I can add on as I save and won't need to have him come back out.
I have the T5 high intensity flourescents too. I have had them for about 3 years on a 10' ceiling and I sure am happy with them. They are much, much brighter than standard tubes. It is almost like sunlight. It is true that the initial cost is a little higher but in my opinion if you like things to be lighted well it is worth it.
thanks! I need all the light I can get. My eyes are not want they once were :) I just checked out amazon. What type do you suggest the 6 or 8 bulb? How many in a shop 16 x 24?
Edited 9/26/2008 2:20 pm ET by CPS SW
I have the 6 tube. I think I initially found out about them from an article in FWW a few years ago. I was looking for a formula to calculate lumens needed for an area and never could find one so I guessed at what I needed. My shop is 768 square feet in a 3 car garage that is used strictly as a shop. I hung 6 fixtures spacing them out over where I put my equipment. The first time I turned them on it was sort of like coming from a dark room into sunlight. I probably could have gotten by with 5 fixtures but I'm glad I have six. These lights are very good for eliminating shadows. I highly recommend them.
Thanks Postman!I've emailed a company for their suggestion on lighting. They have some that are sealed for dusty areas.
My shop is 20 x 40 with 10' ceilings. I used exterior bead board and finished with a clear varnish. I had a local light shop spec the lights for the shop, they have software to do this. I have 16 Lithonia low profile wrap around florescent light fixtures with 4 bulbs in them each. The bulbs are T8 four foot bulbs at 4100K. The lighting plan showed how to switch the fixtures, location from walls, and spacing. The fixtures have solid state ballasts so there is no hum (my other requirement). In the rest of the building (40 x 40)I have 16 fixtures installed at 18' high. The shop is very well illuminated and there is no need for task lights with minimal shadows. I did price the fixtures at the box stores and online and the local show was very competitive, plus they did an awsome design. I think I had arond $ 1500.00 in all of the lighting fixtures and bulbs for both the workshop and the rest of the building.
Eddie
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