I am basically a hobbiest but am sometimes “forced” into work for pay. My shop is 24X34 and has 14″ceilings. I have two flourecescent light fixtures in the ceiling that does not give enough light when I am trying to cut to a layout line on DT or a lot of other close work. I need to add fixtures of some kind and am thinking of rewiring and putting at least two more fixtures at each of the sides about at the ceiling. I have looked at floor stand lamps but I know they will produce more heat than I want. Anyone have any suggestions?
Replies
54x20 here and 16 two tube 4' fixtures. For the close stuff I have some clamp on reflector type lamps that I screw those spiral flourecsents into, almost no heat with those. I have the lights on more than one circuit and have them switched in banks so I don't feed the power company to light up areas I'm not using. The older I get the more light I like!
Just finished building out a 22 x 72 shop, my son is a specialist in lighting for a large manufacturer. He laid out my shop lighting using some kind of special computer program. The shop has 49 4' floresant light tubes and 9 can lights.... all of them have the new daylight style bulbs and there seems to be no shadows in the shop. The ceiling is only eight feet and there are two side rooms with additional lighting one for finishing with explosion proof lighting. The shop lights are on four circuits, so you only have to turn on the ones where you will be working. It seems pretty effective.
Moksha
Now thats what I call lighting!
Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb
I can only add to what Moksha has stated - go the few extra bucks and use daylight color lighting - you will be impressed and happier working in the shop. There is nothing like going out to the shop on a dark, cold winter's night and being surrounded with summer sunshine! It also offers the best color rendition so you're not likely to wind up with a stain that looks great in the shop, but no so great in a customer's home.
I use 8' high output lamps in my shop - the only light source for the attached photo. (please, no wise-cracks about the cleanliness - it does not often look like this).
Regard it as just as desirable to build a chicken house as to build a cathedral.
Frank Lloyd Wright
Rennie,
Very impressive.
Your shop looks slightly smaller than Montana.
Now I know what I want my shop to look like when I grow up.
96
PS - I heard that Norm saw the photo of your shop and is planning to make you an offer.
96,
And I always thought is was way too small! I share the space with a washer & dryer, water heater, furnace, refrigerator, and the back end of a fireplace. It's smaller than it looks.
As for Norm's offer, I'd consider an even swap!Regard it as just as desirable to build a chicken house as to build a cathedral. Frank Lloyd Wright
Rennie
You have all that other stuff in your shop.................GEE!!
Let me know how your negotiation goes with Norm; maybe I can negotiate a subsequent deal with him after your finished.
Nice shop.
RonT
Dear Rennie,
Wow! Nice shop! I am needing some lighting as well, I like the brightness. I have a bunch of 2 bulb flourecents that are standard issue white type. They are six footers I think. I'm going to look into those bulbs. I like a bright shop. like yourself, I need a bit more these days!Best,JohnPS. Is that jointer I see set for 5/16"? It looks like more than 1/16" under the fence! :-)
You can't go by the gap under the fence, this ones set at 1/32!
Scuse the mess and poor focus, I could'nt move back far enough to get it clearly.
Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb
Dear D,
I don't know, I'm thinking that you may of moved it, but I'll take your word for it! No apologies necessary, nice pic! I have to get better at resizing them. Best,John
Very nice kitchen, Rennie. Do you just throw a steer on that meat-cutter on the left and reduce it to proper portions on the butcher-block on the right? ha.. ha...
Very nice kitchen indeed...
SARGE.. g47
Sarge,
Thanks for the complement (?). The HD knock downs are cheap and very strong and reflect a lot of light. I know that the workshop is a place to show off your skills, but my time in the shop is so limited that I decided to work on other projects for other people/family and shortchange myself. The knock downs got me up and running in a single weekend and the entire shop full of cabinets was under $500. When I retire, and if I ever move, I might consider buiding my own shop storage - but if the LOML and 3 kids still love my doing things for them my needs might have to take a back seat....again. Their smiles are more beautiful than any shop storage I have ever seen.
Now, before you hurt yourself laughing too much - please note the large drawer cabinets. These are not kitchenware - they came from a local fabric shop that was remodeling. The all steel drawers are a full 24" deep (depth of cabinet) ride on full extension ball bearing slides and will hold 200 lbs each. They hold all my tools and keep them organized and dust free.
Oh, BTW, I paid $25 each for them. ;o)Regard it as just as desirable to build a chicken house as to build a cathedral. Frank Lloyd Wright
Actually, I wasn't laughing. Just kiddin' ya. The shop is very impressive as you took the cards you were dealt and played them to the maximum, IMO. I am very impressed indeed.
Those cabs look similar to the ones I built on both sides of a mitre saw and look very similar as I paint everything (I love to paint??) . Used the tops as extensions on both side and store tons of goodies under-neath. I have 8 (at this point) of the 2 tube 4' flo's in my forward shop. I agree whole-heartily about using the day-light bulbs. They are far superior to the standards I believe.
My top portion is painted with semi-gloss to help reflect light back instead of absorb. My forward shop is in a two car drive-under the house garage. The lower walls are concrete poured and raise in steps as you go toward the half base-ment (rear shop much to my lovelies chagrin.. he...). Painted those very light gray with gloss outside porch paint. You have to squeeze every ounce of light you can get.
So...... again nice kitchen. If you ever get tired of eating in that ***** five star restaurant, you could always turn it into a ***** five star wood-shop. ha.. ha...
I am truly impressed...
SARGE.. g47
No offence taken - I knew you were kidding and just wanted to kid back a bit.
I recently painted the tops of those cabinets (3/4 MDF with a 'sacrificial' 1/4" hardboard covering. It helped a great deal.
Under the miter saw is my compressor - Hitachi - I lined the cabinet with acoustical ceiling tiles - wow, did that ever help with the noise!
I tend to go overboard when telling people about lighting the shop - it's often left until last and not given too much thought. I think good lighting is one of the most important tools you can have - and probably the only 'tool' that actually increases the level of safety in the shop.
The pic is about 5 years old. I've rearranged and collected several new tools since then. Oh, yea, I have also gotten so much wood - people like to give me wood - that it has overflowed my storage rack and filled the floor space behind and under my 'meat cutter'.Regard it as just as desirable to build a chicken house as to build a cathedral. Frank Lloyd Wright
my first thought that i actually said out loud to myself is, "that place looks like a pleasure to work in."
It is! Though it tends to feel cramped at times. I don't have an assembly table so most of my work gets assembled, clamped, and finished on the saw table. OK, except when you have to rearrange the shop and move a bunch of tools and parts just to cut one little piece of wood.
I'm VERY fortunate that the LOML indulges me so. Neither her car nor mine have ever seen the inside of a garage.Regard it as just as desirable to build a chicken house as to build a cathedral. Frank Lloyd Wright
ah, the tablesaw work top! i read you should never do that.... after doing it for years for precisely the same reasons as yourself.
When building my shop, 22 X30 two stories. Actually plans for a Cape Cod house. I asked The Boys at my Electrical Supply Store what I needed for good lighting. They plugged the size numbers, LxWxH into a computer program and that gave the answer. It even broke down the usage to general lighting(high output, cold temp, double 8ftrs) and task lighting. I ended up with five general lighting circuits and three task lighting circuits. Above each, the TS, Router table and workbench I have 500W quartz task lights(My idea) but that was a little much so I dropped them back to 300W as they suggested. Find a good Elec. Supply Store you can trust and go for it. Another suggestion, I put in a lot of 3 and 4 way switches for quick access and to save a lot of steps. Building inspector thought I was over the top, But I still want to add some more task lighting, another 300W above the lathe.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Thanks for your replies.
Mokshea, that is a lot of lights. I will have to figure our how I can wire to get the same result for my size shop.
Rennie, I will have to find out more about daylight color lights and find a source. I will start first wit local lighting business. Against your request, I must say the lights make your shop look very clean.
Bruce, Thanks for your suggestion. I know our local lighting company does have a computer program for determining lighting needs.
Hey Coolbreeze,While not a perfect substitute for adequate overhead lighting, floor stands can be very handy, particularly if they have numerous outlets, hangers for extension cords, and a rotating base so that they can roll around and be aimed where you want them. They even make fair dance partners.Tom
You need help.Regard it as just as desirable to build a chicken house as to build a cathedral. Frank Lloyd Wright
Practicing for a trip to RIO ?? Or trying to get an audition for "So You think can dance" ??Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
does it have sister, she looks really hot!
You didn't mention a ceiling in your shop. In my shop, part of it has a ceiling & part is open rafters, all wood, all dark in color. I have a lot of "daylight" fluorescents, but they aren't quite enough because walls & ceiling are not very reflective. increasing the number of fixtures doesn't help much. I plan to paint all surfaces that I can with "ceiling white" paint which should help a lot. Also, I plan to add portable lamps to use for those times when I need to skim light off a surface. LOL!BTW, an easy-to-understand source of info on light qualities can be found in Kodak's technical publications for photographers. Interestingly, "daylight" fluorescents don't correspond to average daylight spectrally. Don't let that stop you from buying them. Just be aware that your wood may look slightly different in true daylight or under indoor incandescent light.Cadiddlehopper
Hopper, My shop has 14"ceilings finished out with sheetrock in white. The walls of my shop are done in plywood painted white. Sometimes I wonder if white was a good choice for the walls until I consider lighting. Then I know white is a good color. I have 4 "normal" size windows and the front has an insulated single car garage door. During daylight hours, there is normally enough light to do most work. However, when I am making a very fine cut on my SCMS, I do not have enough light on the left side of the cut. That is the one I usually watch. Also, when I am doing dovetails there is always a scribe line I can't see well enough to cut to . It is really hard for me to actually see the line and stop my cut without risking cutting through the scribe line.
I am already wired and any changes will require getting my electrician back out to do the work. I probably will have to consider some type of portable light even after upgrading my fixed lighting.
Edited 7/6/2006 11:36 pm ET by coolbreeze
To see a scribed line that is difficult, I trace over it with a soft pencil then erase (on light woods) which leaves the groove filled with graphite. I suppose chalk might work on dark woods, a problem I have not yet encountered. A strong directional light beam would also help.Cadid
Use a white coloring pencil on dark woods. I keep all of my colored pencils handy for marking out construction triangles and the white for the dark woods.
Moku, I tried the marking as one of the suggestions I received in this thread. I think it was Hopper that made the suggestion. I made a set of DT's using poplar and used a black lead. Of course, white would work on dark wood. I sharpened my flat leaded pencil and it fell right into the scribed line and did help. I still have to do some improvements on my lighting.
May I add to two of your statements?
When you paint everything white look for paint labeled as super white or something similar. Some manufacturers rate their white paints as to their reflective qualities - choose the highest available.
The 'daylight' lamps you can pick up at the HD for about 4 bucks are a good choice, much much better than the 'cool whites'. However, you can buy 'full spectrum' lights at better lighting suppliers. I believe these come closer to sunlight but are more expensive. I relamped my shop (florescent lamps loose much of their brilliance as they age) and paid over $100 for the 8 - 8' lamps. That's when I decided to relamp 1 2-bulb fixture at a time on a 4 year schedule!
One last note that probably goes without saying - never have your lighting and tools on the same circuit. Always put your lighting on a separate circuit. You NEVER want to be standing in the dark with a tool that is still spinning, etc.
Regard it as just as desirable to build a chicken house as to build a cathedral. Frank Lloyd Wright
Edited 7/7/2006 8:45 am by Rennie
"May I add to two of your statements?" You just did & very well."never have your lighting and tools on the same circuit." Amen! Unfortunately, I bought a wired shop, but tools & lights ARE separate circuits. More unfortunately, nearly all tool receptacles are on the same circuit -- about 40 sockets -- on 2 levels! And they are routed in conduit! There are several 220v branches I was able to modify for both 220 & 110 circuits including a dust collector. The previous owner must have been determined that only one person would ever run a tool in the shop at any time.Cadid
i have a number of daylight balanced bulbs at home and in my shop at work. they are a lot easier and cheaper to find than they used to be. this kind of light really helps with mood etc. esp. is the winter months.
generally around 5000k is the considered to be a daylight bulb. i have all 4 footers and i got them at home depot most recently. you can even buy compact fluorescents in a daylight balanced color now. i also have some of them at home and at work. daylight balanced bulbs really are the way to go for lighting.
greg
Bruce,
I've been considering a two story garage type building for a shop on our retirement property. How did you split the work spaces between the ground / 2nd floor? Any material transfer done between the two? If so, how did you accomplish it?
Thanks.
Terry
The original plans called for a 10' X 10' ground floor to second floor ceiling shaft with the stairs running up the outside wall(narrow width of bldg.) I studded in the stairs up to second floor level to enclose them and built a floor across that area. But framed in a 4 x 5 hatch door. Under the stairs I built two seperate closets, one for the dust collector and the other for the air compressor. Couldn't see all my shop heat going up into my lumber storage area. My lower level ceilings are 10' so it's real easy to stuff lumber upstairs. I also put in a door to the upstairs with a lock on it to keep Grandchildren out of trouble. Eventually, When $$$$$$$ permit, The upstairs will have some sort of electric hoist attached to a platform(elevator) when I make the Finishing room.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
I have a 2nd floor shop which may as well be a 2-story. I would much rather have a single floor shop. Material movement is the reason. I always liked those barns built into a hillside with one entrance below & another walk-in entrance at 2nd floor level. That would help with the problem. A single floor, nearly square shop would be my ultimate preference. My present one is 60 x 24 broken up with structural walls. Keep it open. Make walls temporary. LOL!Cadiddlehopper
Thanks. My thoughts as well, but it the garage in the houseplans we're considering is 2 stories and it's a shame to lose out on the space. I like Bruce's idea of using the 2nd floor as a finishing area and putting in a hoist to move material between the spaces. Anyone ever seen a hoist/lift arrangement that would work in this context?
Terry
Last year one of the magazines featured a 2 story shop ( or was it a shop on the 2nd floor) Good piece and some useful insights to the benefits/limitations of being a 2nd story man.
Anyone remember this?
Regard it as just as desirable to build a chicken house as to build a cathedral. Frank Lloyd Wright
Edited 7/10/2006 2:20 pm by Rennie
Yes, I worked in a shop that had a hoist to the second floor. The platform was about 3' x 6'. It hoisted up to being flush with the second floor. The upstairs area was used for storing finished items, and for photographing. I don't remember any details about the hook-up, but it was an electric hoist.
I hope you can ventilate that 2nd story finishing area.I have 2 hoists, chain type. One swivels on an axis, the other has a trolley on H-beam. They are s-o-o-o-o-o slow & the chains beat on the items lifted. The cheap ones have a short lift range also. My ceilings aren't high, so I can compensate with lifting straps under the load. Go for electric lifting. Getting heavy machinery to the 2nd floor has been quite a challenge at times. I was informed that one of Chrysler Corp.'s problems prior to government bailout was their multi-story factory. Hoisting wasted a lot of production time. I know first hand what you must be stuck with. Good luck!Cadiddlehopper
FWIW I recently added a bunch of light to my shop with track lighting. I got a couple of lots of used (but still very good) lightolier track heads (around 12 or so all together) on eBay for less than $75 total. I bought new track and connectors at the electrical supply store for another $250 or so along with some plug-in ends to make the electrical easy. I put up a couple runs that pretty well cover my shop machines and bench. With wide angle beams and the ability to move them around on the track or point them in any direction, I have lots of great light at a fairly inexpensive price.
For task lighting I'm finding the screw in fluorescent bulbs are nice. They are intended as energy efficient replacements for incandescent bulbs around the house but they are quite bright. I'm using 100W equivalent bulbes in inexpensive fixtures where ever I need more light.
Thanks, Hoppy. I will add your suggestion to the list of things I will consider. that sounds like a good solution.
Cool
FWW #154 had an article on this. For a shop your size the article recommends about 24 4' or 12 8' full wattage 2 lamp fixtures. The article also describes appropriate spacing of the fixtures, based on ceiling height.
Woodlark, Thanks for the suggestion. The FWW #154 has a Lonnie Bird 18th Century Pennsylvania Secretary plan. I have made that secretary and have been asked to build it on commission. Have not committed to the job and not sure I will.
I do have that issue and will check out the article. Thanks.
Only one thing to add to all the great suggestions - be sure you get the electronic ballasts. A bit pricier but they don't hum and don't generate as much heat.
Talk about hum! I had an electrician come in and do my shop with lots of lights and did not know to ask for electronic balasts. The hum was rough. For some reason, in the winter, it was worse. I was getting ready to swap the balasts, when I had to move and sold the house. For my new shop, electronic balasts will be essential. It's amazing how that will grate on your nerves.
I agree with the observations of others ... lots more florescent lights is what you need. One item that I grappled with recently when I added lights in my shop - there are two kinds of florescent now, the old "T-12" and the newer "t-8". The T-8 bulbs are smaller, so at first I assumed they were not as bright. BUT that is wrong. I tried a T-8 light and found that even though the diameter of the builbs is slightly smaller, they put out more light. And it is newer, so they start better and do not buzz. Guess my advise is simply to go with the newer T-8 technology when you get the lights. Do know that the T-8 technology will create an electrical field that will effect your a.m. reception at the low end of the dial ... if you listen to a.m. radio.
Good luck.
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