Replies

1. 
   cadiddlehopper | Jun 12, 2006 07:15am | #1

   I would like to add to kingwah's series of questions. 1) Must veneer on both sides be the same species? 2) What type(s)of glue work? 3) Must both sides be glued at same time in a veneer press?

   I ask because I recently did a similar job with mixed results. More info later.

   Cadiddlehopper

1. 
   ring | Jun 12, 2006 08:26am | #2

   I can relate to part of the questions.  I don't do my own veneering - there's far too much and it's too reasonably priced for me not to sub-contract it to a shop with industrial equipment.

   1.  We always glue veneer on both sides of a panel, but there's no need for it to be the same species.   Depends on what's cheap and available where you are.

   2.  The two sides are of course glued up at the sime time in the press.  Why would you choose not to?

   3.  My veneer shop does not like baltic birch as a substrate at all.  He says that the veneer does not always adhere well.  I forced the issue once (making him do it at my risk) and did not see any problems, but I do not discount his advice.

   DR

1. 
   cadiddlehopper | Jun 12, 2006 09:31pm | #7

   "The two sides are of course glued up at the sime time in the press. Why would you choose not to?"I feared that the glue might skin over giving a poor bond during the time taken to butter both sides of alarge substrate. My press is 24 x 48. Also, a water based glue humidifies the substrate perhaps unevenly if glued at different times. My panels on 1/4 BB ply did warp slightly even though both sides were glued at once. The drying shrinkage of the two species is quite different.Thanxx!! very much for the qualified input.Cadiddlehopper

2. 
   mapleman | Jun 12, 2006 05:12pm | #3

   Hi King,

   I have glued veneer to regular and baltic birch plywood on a regular basis with great results. I always score the surface of the plywood with a blade from a toothing plane (I use the blade by holding it in my hand, no need to go buy an expensive specialized plane for this purpose). This gives the glue something to bite on. I have never had an issue with adhesion since I started using this technique. I do not, however, use veneer 1/8" thick, so I would recommend test runs first. You do not need to use the same veneer on the back side of your panel if you don't want to. And this will draw quite a bit of fire from other posters, but unless the panel will be visible on both sides, I do not veneer both sides of plywood. If you are using 1/4" ply, it would probably be necessary, however I veneer 1/2" and 3/4" ply all the time on 1 side with no warping. Another factor might be the size of your panel, my panels are usually small, under 16 X 20 or so. If you are doing a tabletop, I would recommend veneering both sides. I use a vacuum press, and since most of the veneers I use are comercially produced they are about 1/42" thick. I use glue from Lee Valley (202 GF glue) which is a little thicker than regular woodworking glue (the GF stands for gap filling) I find the thicker glue doesn't squeeze out of the veneer's pores under a vacuum (veneers like walnut burl, crotch mahogany, etc). If you are using 1/8" veneer, that won't be an issue. The glue is a light brown color when cured, but that is usually not much of a problem. One other tip/trick I would share: if you are using thin veneer and doing book matching or other matching where you tape the pieces together, I always glue the tape down to the panel. Nobody else recommends this, everybody says you have to glue the tape up and then sand or scrape it off after the panel dries. This is nonsense, I have never in my life been able to see the tape (I use perforated veneer tape) on a glue line, out of maybe 150 or more panels I have glued up. This saves you some time and scraping/ sanding.

   Good luck

   Lee

1. 
   kingwah | Jun 12, 2006 05:18pm | #4

   Thanks for your helpful feedback! FYI - The panels I have in mind will be about 12 x 42 (chest casework). Your input has given me enough confidence to at least try a test panel. Thanks again.

1. 
   sapwood | Jun 12, 2006 08:06pm | #5

   I believe that 1/8" veneer is too thick. 3/32" is my personal limit and I'd prefer to not exceed 1/16". There was another discussion a couple of months ago where some others disagreed.You might want to visit the forum at vacu press: http://www.vacupress.com

1. 
   RickL | Jun 12, 2006 09:25pm | #6

   http://www.furnituresociety.org/fin/ceder.html

   http://www.mintmuseum.org/craftingnc/06-05-01-b-2.htm

   John Cederquist has been using 1/4" veneer on 1/2" baltic birch for a number  of years. More of a paequetry technique and he doesn't apply anything to the other side. He mentions in an interview in Woodwork magazine how he saw a similar technique used on  room wall paneling seen at the Metropoliatn Museum in New York. Dates back to the 1500's I believe. I've see the room and it is pretty amazing.Woodworking Machinery Technician

1. 
   cadiddlehopper | Jun 12, 2006 09:52pm | #8

   About thick veneer: If it is 1/4 thick, why veneer? Isn't that thick enough for structure in many cases? At that thickness it seems warpage is not likely either.Cadiddlehopper

2. 
   cadiddlehopper | Jun 13, 2006 01:34pm | #9

   I remember seeing veneer tape in catalogs, but I can't find it in any that I have. What are your sources, please?Cadiddlehopper

1. 
   John_D | Jun 13, 2006 09:51pm | #12

   Pretty much everyone sells veneer tape.  Rockler, Highland Hardware, Lee Valley, the most popular veneering site, Woodworker's Supply, etc.My goal is for my work to outlast me.  Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.

1. 
   cadiddlehopper | Jun 14, 2006 12:03am | #13

   That is what I thought was the case. I checked all but Rockler, website or catalog. Will check further. Found some on ebay in Arkansas. That may be close enough. I thought I'd give your method a try. Thanxx!!Cadiddlehopper

2. 
   mapleman | Jun 14, 2006 01:56am | #14

   Hey Cad,

   Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. In addition to all the places the other poster mentioned, try http://www.joewoodworker.com. He sells tons of veneer supplies, glue, stain, etc. and I believe perforated and non-perforated tape with moistenable glue. Plus he has some great veneer, sold in single sheets with pictures of each flitch, so you can see what you are getting. I have ordered from him a few times and found the service to be great.

   Lee

1. 
   cadiddlehopper | Jun 15, 2006 02:02am | #15

   Thanxx!!, Mapleman. I located tape at Rockler & Constantine's after a more diligent search. I'll investigate your other source, too. I have lots of veneer (mostly maple, BTW), but need other stuff.Cadiddlehopper

2. 
   John_D | Jun 15, 2006 11:17pm | #16

   Heh, I listed joewoodworker as the "most popular veneering site," so I guess we're on the same page. :)My goal is for my work to outlast me.  Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.

3. 
   Garry | Jun 13, 2006 05:03pm | #10

   This is a headboard adn foot board that I made recently with cherry and curly yellow birch.
   The curly yellow birch panels are resawed to 1/8" and glued on both sides of 1/4 inch luan plywood. The process worked well with no problems to date.
   The details are at the following link.
   http://www.superwoodworks.com/Projects/ArchedBed.htm

   View Image

   http://www.superwoodworks.com

1. 
   Rennie | Jun 13, 2006 05:29pm | #11

   Wow. I want to be like you when I grow up.

   Nice work.Regard it as just as desirable to build a chicken house as to build a cathedral. Frank Lloyd Wright