Replies

1. 
   lancercunn | Jul 30, 2002 03:41am | #1

   I have both the Shop Vac 16 gal model and the Fein Turbo Vac II (9-55-13).  The Fein is by far the superior machine.  It is very quiet, not top heavy, rolls nice has a locking hose and the autostart feature is very handy for sanding operations.  It is the perfect shop vacuum, but not sure how it would do with the large amount of chips from a planer, jointer, etc. 

   From the limited knowledge I have on dust collection, I know that CFM and pipe diameter is very important.  You can look up charts on recommended CFM for each machine and the minimum pipe diameter to achieve this CFM knowing the static pressure the air mover develops.  The latest issue of WOOD magazine has an article on designing a dust collection system.  I believe American Woodworker had a good article on this subject last year and checkout Oneida Systems website.  They will help you with your design if you by $50 worth of merchandise.

   If you do end up buying the Fein, take a look at Amazon.com, not sales tax and no shipping cost!!!!

   Lancer...

1. 
   SlyTheCat | Jul 30, 2002 04:33pm | #3

   Lancer,

   the Fein seems to be the pick - I'm sure the Trubo III is even better as it has the same decibel rating but a larger canister.

   I was surprised that Amazon had the Fein II at a higher cost than the Woodcraft website.  With tax, it's about break-even if I pick up the Fein at Woodcraft, so I would much rather get it there as they've been very helpful in a few things.

   Target has a 10 gal shop vac for $60 (QPS30); other models at Amazon for $120 or less up to 16 gallons.

   Amazon turbo II for $240, 16 ft hose 5 micron bag

   Woodcraft today for the same Fein is $220 (I KNOW it was $200 last week)

   I like the idea of buying the shop vacuum now and adding a DC later, so I'll have to decide how much I want to spend based on what I think the results will be (it's hard to project how loud is too loud when you don't even start these things up to listen to them first - even if you do start them up then you put them in a small shop it's only going ot be louder - one post on one board was talking about how they used the Fein all around the house for different things, and so that is a consideration - 16 gallons may be too big - how heavy would that be to carry up the sawdust up the stairs?).

   Thanks all - any other comments welcome.

2. 
   nigelUsa | Jul 30, 2002 06:00am | #2

   You have ordered a real nice saw, well done! You can plug in a shop vac in to the dust port and it will work fine. But shop vac are loud. I have the delta 1hp dust collector and it works well. You will need a short piece of 2.5" vac tube and a 2.5" tp 4' converter. I have mine fixed to the lower left side of the saw. I use the dust collector on the planer to. In hind site I would buy the 1.5hp collector because of the higher flow rate. But "space" is also a consideration. If you don't have the shop vac yet then get that first as you can use it for all you dust collection. Ridged make a great shop vac up to 20 gallon. The craftsman is also a good unit.

3. 
   sharp | Aug 02, 2002 07:03am | #4

   try festool before you buy fein!

1. 
   bill_1010 | Aug 02, 2002 07:08pm | #5

   FWIW, amazon does that meet and beat by 10%.  But then again if your local dealer is worth it, help them out.

1. 
   LarryPile | Aug 03, 2002 04:51pm | #6

   Hi,

   I'm not an expert...suggest you do some reading or further investigation.  For six months I used a Shop Vac brand vacuum...it did okay..but not spectacularly.  When I added a 1.5 hp 1100 CFM dust collector, it made all the difference in the world.

   I think it has something to do with CFM..not just suction power...the 4" diameter hoses and larger CFM capacity can pull chips, etc through long runs, etc.

   "Both" the vacuum and the DC are a great recommendation....just know what you're getting each for..and what you can reasonably expect. 

   Sounds like you did lots of checking and investigating before deciding on a table saw.  Do the same with your dust collection...you can't buy new lungs!

   I know that there are several books about dust collection....get one and read it!

   Good luck!

   lp

4. 
   user-24343 | Aug 11, 2002 05:48am | #7

   I would not use a shop vac to gather dust and chips from a table saw - and certainly not a jointer or planer.  A dust collector is what you need for that - and Oneida is a good manufacturer for small shop solutions.  Don't let me dissuade you from a vacuum though - just a different tool for a different purpose.  If you are going to collect relatively fine dust from a sander or even bigger chips from a router or handheld saw, a vacuum is a good thing.  The Fein is excellent, but I've got to second the comment from whoever said Festool (was called Festo).  Every one of their tools is best in class.  What is awesome is the system approach Festool has to all their tools.  All of the Festool tools (except the drill) have dust collection hook ups and the vacuums are, yes, even better than the Feins.  I'm not sure they extract any more material or are quieter (both are solid machines), but the Festools don't knock over as easily, have a place to wind the cord and have a low stance and nice flat top that is custom made to accept (with latches) the custom made toolbox that was designed for whichever Festool you happen to be using.  While you are checking out the vacuum and the multitude of accessories available, look at the circular saws and the router and the guide systems common to each.  I've got the saw and router and they leave almost no dust when connected to the vacuum.  The dust collection on these tools was designed in.  It is not an add on.  When considering dust control, check out Woodshop Dust Control by Sandor N...(can't recall the spelling)  This book will tell you all you need to know on the subject.

5. 
   dmmcwethy | Aug 11, 2002 04:21pm | #8

   I've made a lot of sawdust and wood scraps in the last 25 years and I have two opinions I'd like to share with you (realizing that both put together and a dollar still won't get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks....)

   First, I've always used a 16-gallon shop vac (of at least 5 HP) for dust-and-chip collection (principally because of the total system cost compared to the blower-fan-and-bag alternative) because you can move a shop vac around to vacuum up the shop in general. 

   When one unit wears out (every three years or so) I replace it with a Sears reconditioned one, as these cost about half what a new one does, and carry the same one-year warranty.  Go figure. 

   As to the noise, I've seen several catalogs that offer a "shop vac muffler" that connects to the EXHAUST of the vac and reportedly reduces the db level considerably. 

   Second, if you do go the shop vac route, spring for the $30 that a washable ultra-high-efficiency filter will cost.  I had come to accept as inevitable the fine coating of dust on all surfaces until I realized that most of it had been blown through the pleated-paper "filter" that came with the vac.  I replaced it with a "Cleanstream" filter (Lowe's) and it's so efficient that I can even leave the door open between the shop and kitchen without any dust spillover between rooms.

   Mac

   
   

   ---

   Edited 8/11/2002 12:13:34 PM ET by Mac

1. 
   mitch | Aug 11, 2002 05:07pm | #9

   i'd like to second mac's thoughts on the gore-tex "cleanstream" filters.  my 3hp shopvac became an asthmatic joke 2 minutes after cleaning its stock filter- even faster with drywall mud dust. (btw- check out the Aquair? water bucket filter/sander set-up for finishing drywall- it is awesome! virtually no dust at a fourth the cost of a porter-cable power sander)  and the blow-thru made as much mess as i was trying to clean up- not to mention the time the factory foam filter and cloth fell off in use- talk about your dust volcanoes!

   with the washable gore-tex filters it was like getting a brand new machine with twice the power.  and it will run ALOT longer between cleanings, too.  worth every penny!

   mitch

1. 
   Sancho | Aug 11, 2002 07:37pm | #10

   I would not use a shop vac for dust collection either. From what I understand dc is based on airflow so the bigger the pipe or hose and the more cfm the better collection. You got yourself a nice saw so why scrimp on a collector. You said you could get a shop vac for about 200 bucks well for about 30-50 bucks more you can get a jet 650 or a delta equivolent and have a nice system thats alot more quiet then a shop vac.  also you can use 4" hose so much more airflow then a 2 1/2" hose from a shop vac. just my opinion. Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"

1. 
   dhpascoe | Aug 11, 2002 09:31pm | #11

   I agree with Ron, I've tried vacs and find them completely inadequate. It'll do for one machine, but not more. A 1.5 hp  vac does not clear my table saw  and I still got dust flying. Moving the hose around from machine to machine is a total PITA. You end up with a vac, hose and power cord always getting in the way. And doncha just love those vacs where, if you pull them by the hose, they tip over!!

   The portable DC's are fine if you got the space, but those things really take up the space. The only solution I could find for a 2 car garage size shop was putting the DC outside or in the attic, the later of which is solution I plan to go with because I can drop the hoses down from above and not create a nightmare on the floor. This is not a cheap or easy solution, but I chose not to take anymore half measures until I can afford to install something that really  works. After 15 years of half-vast solutions, I decided I've had enough of those.

   Dave of Fla.

1. 
   sharp | Aug 12, 2002 12:29am | #12

   to simplify the applications of vacs vs dust collection for the original post I will state this.

   For efficient dust collection from all hand held tools including sanders, routers and biscuit jointers one must use a shop vac.

   if you don't mind screaming loud mahines then the commercial brands at home depot or lowes will be OK. For quieter well designed machines go for Festool or Fein.

   For efficient dust collection from all stationary tools including table saw, jointer, planer and band saw one must use a dust collector.

   Anything with 1000 plus cfm should be a good start.

   j.

2. 
   Sancho | Aug 12, 2002 05:13am | #13

   "For efficient dust collection from all hand held tools including sanders, routers and biscuit jointers one must use a shop vac"

   Not necessarily, I use my DC, I used a adapter to step the 4" hose to fit one that will work with my PC BJ and my default 5" ROS and 1/4 sheet finish sander. It works great for me.  Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"

3. 
   sharp | Aug 12, 2002 07:11am | #14

   "For efficient dust collection from all hand held tools including sanders, routers and biscuit jointers one must use a shop vac"

   Not necessarily, I use my DC, I used a adapter to step the 4" hose to fit one that will work with my PC BJ and my default 5" ROS and 1/4 sheet finish sander. It works great for me. 

   I used to do that to but the collection isn't that efficient especially with router chips from a 1" hose

   j

4. 
   Sancho | Aug 13, 2002 04:14am | #15

   I agree the router table I use an adapter to reduce from 4" to 2 1/2 for my RT that really isnt as effective as Id like it. One of these days im gonna come up with something to use my 4" directly on the RT Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"