Replies

1. 
   JohnWW | May 20, 2009 05:24pm | #1

   I'm the guy in the video and in my estimation what I did wasn't dangerous.

   First of all I didn't reach over the saw blade, I reached in from the right side with my right hand, my hand was never over the blade and was never that close to the saw. My hand was on the table which made the reach very stable and and I was paying attention. Short of having a muscle spasm of some sort, my hand wasn't going to suddenly jump towards the blade.

   I didn't shut the saw off because I was taking multiple cuts and I don't like short cutoffs floating around near the descending teeth of the blade, I've seen plenty of such pieces catch on the teeth and get fired across the shop with enough force to hurt someone. If the cutoff is still on the table when the saw is shut down the harmonic shudder that many saws exhibit as the blade speed winds down is often the cause of the scrap moving into the teeth of the saw.

   I have tried, and seen other operators try, to clear scraps with push sticks but this occasionally creates exactly the kind of problem I was trying to prevent, the scrap, or even the push stick, is bumped against the blade and gets fired into the air.

   John White
   Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998-2007

1. 
   ThisOldmoose | May 20, 2009 05:43pm | #2

   After viewing the video again, I see you remove the cutoff from next to the spinning blade then shut the saw off, in that order. In every video I've seen on the subject on many other websites the practice has always been to shut the machine off to clear any cutoffs that may be seen as a hazard. Sorry but I have to disagree with your methods on this occasion.

1. 
   Anatole | May 20, 2009 05:49pm | #4

   Good points, all. I prefer to use a pencil with an eraser to move small offcuts when cutting multples and wanting to keep the process moving along quickly.

   The eraser has good grab; the worst that could happen is I chop up my pencil. But that's never happened.

2. 
   dustymctevish | May 20, 2009 05:46pm | #3

   I’ve had my share of flying wood chunks through the years, one learns to stay out of the line of fire, and I have also removed cutoffs with the saw running.  But this brings up a issue as to how close is too close.  Is it a matter of judgment or is there a recommended safety standard?   

1. 
   JohnWW | May 20, 2009 06:05pm | #5

   There is no standard that I'm aware of. The way I reach in to remove the cutoff is very controlled and deliberate, I just don't see how my hand could suddenly move that last inch or two and wind up touching the blade.John W.

1. 
   dustymctevish | May 20, 2009 06:36pm | #6

   I understand

   <!----><!----> <!---->

   Thanks 

2. 
   Mahoganaholic | May 20, 2009 10:19pm | #7

   I was curious so I checked out your video. I don't wan't to sound critical, but what I saw looked unsafe. Your hand moves quickly to retrieve the falloff, and you swing the workpieces very close to the blade as you set them aside. I've been using a TS for 30-something years and have a good sense of what could get me in trouble. I simply would not risk reaching that close to a spinning blade. Watching you do it made me cringe!

   I realize that with your professional experience, you feel safe with your technique on the video. However, you are teaching a technique on the tablesaw to an audience who may be new to woodworking and will take it as an example of standard tablesaw practice, and possibly have an accident.

   Just my $0.02

3. 
   hammer1 | May 20, 2009 11:05pm | #8

   I have to agree with Oldmoose, too, John. You are breaking some basic safety rules, for what, expediency? Your right hand is too close to the blade, you have tools and scrap lying on the saw while you work, you pull out your tape while the saw is still running, you are only wearing glasses, hopefully safety lens but without side guards and I would not recommend using a Quick grip clamp to hold your stop.I think you have to remember that your audience may be working on a vibrating saw with a dull blade, poor fitting miter bar and maybe with stock that isn't straight. Folks look up to you and FWW to set the highest standards. Dot the Is and cross the Ts, even though the operation is old hat to those of us that have been doing it forever. You don't have to go overboard but as we all know, it's the little things that can bite us.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

1. 
   Buster2000 | May 22, 2009 09:48pm | #9

   ...and I would not recommend using a Quick grip clamp to hold your stop.

   Any specific reason?

1. 
   hammer1 | May 23, 2009 01:50am | #10

   I've had Quickgrips come loose many times. They are OK for many clamping jobs but not for anything around machinery. They work on a system that can feel secure but may be out of square to the work. A slight bump or vibration may knock them loose. I want something that I can put some torque on so there is no question about the holding power. Small C clamps are often my choice and they are less heavy and cumbersome.I was hesitant to be critical of John's video, he seems to be a good guy and knowledgeable but you have to step up your game when you are an educator. I've been in the same boat and made bigger errors.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

1. 
   Buster2000 | May 23, 2009 03:30am | #11

   Makes sense. I haven't had any problem with the Irwin Quickgrips. Actually clamping stop stopblocks to my table saw or chop saw fence is about all I use it for. That doesn't mean the process is right, just that I don't feel the clamp is necessarily a risk.You are correct about teaching...

2. 
   hammer1 | May 23, 2009 05:24am | #12

   There is another issue with clamping stop blocks, particularly with lots of repetition and heavier materials. If you aren't careful to bring the work against the block gently, each tap can move a block that isn't solid, just a fraction. After multiple pieces, you may find the block has slipped and your pieces are getting progressively longer. Of course, a little sawdust or a chip can make a piece shorter. It's so easy to get going when you have a lot of pieces and forget to pay close attention to every one. Sure enjoy finding that out sometime later, during assembly, especially if a design modification isn't possible! It's worse if the process was a series of complicated cuts and you have knocked down the set up. That has taught me a few times, so I try to avoid anything that can contribute, hence, no Quickgrips.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

4. 
   alanplanesaw | May 23, 2009 05:37pm | #13

   John,

   I would probably do the same as you, particularly if I was doing multiple cuts and not turning the saw off after that particular cut.

   Could be that for FWW video making, or any other video maker, to always show ultra-safe safety procedures, while knowing that every woodworker does things that another woodworker would cringe if they saw.

   Thanks for the video.

   Alan - planesaw

   Edited 5/24/2009 10:52 am ET by Planesaw