Replies

1. 
   Ole | Jun 25, 2003 10:59am | #1

   You might consider the Clifton 420 or the 410. Excellent quality. Got the 420 my self and it cuts like a dream. Comes all most ready to go out the box, only needed a light honing and it was ready.

   Ole

   .... I Love the smell of sawdust in the morning....

1. 
   creekwood | Jun 25, 2003 02:37pm | #3

   Thanks for the help. I'll look into this one.

2. 
   RMillard | Jun 25, 2003 12:48pm | #2

   I owned a Stanley No. 92 for years, and it worked okay, but last year I switched to the large LN.

   The precise adjustment , heft, and A-2 blade, of this tool, enables it to take very thin shavings in the toughest wood. Despite its high cost, it was money well spent.

   Rob Millard

1. 
   creekwood | Jun 25, 2003 02:39pm | #4

   Thanks. I was looking at that one, and the smaller version also. Your comments are appresiated.

2. 
   EBrandt | Jun 25, 2003 10:42pm | #9

   Rob,

   I carefully listen to any statement about what tools sit on your bench. The work you produce is amazing.

   I was looking at the large LN Shoulder plane in their catalogs, and then saw it 'live' at the local store - man is it big!

   Is there any situation where it is too big for what you're doing? If so, does that situation occur so often as to necessitate a smaller shoulder plane on your bench as well?

   Thanks for the insight,

   Eric.

1. 
   konrad | Jun 26, 2003 12:36am | #10

   Hi Eric,

   I have found that a shoulder plane can be too big - but it really depends on the type of work you do. I have a couple different sized shoulder planes and if I had to pick one it would either be 3/4" or 1". It is small enough that you can see around it if need be, but also has enough mass to cut smoothly in any type of wood. It is also wide enough to trim most shoulders. If I were to pick 2 sizes they would be the extremes - 1-1/2" and 5/8" to 3/4".

   cheers, Konrad

2. 
   RMillard | Jun 26, 2003 02:50am | #13

   The plane is quite large, and to be honest at first I thought this would be a problem, but actually the opposite is true. The weight of the plane helps to dampen any chatter, so it sails through the cut with very little pressure, and this make it very easy to control despite its size. I have used to trim the fit on a tenon on a face frame that was only 1 inch wide, with no problem.

   Thanks for your comments on my work, I appreciate them. My work is just a copy of what some long dead craftsman made, any praise should go to them.

   Rob Millard

3. 
   AlanTurner | Jun 25, 2003 05:53pm | #5

   Another thought?  I have the LN rabbet plane, and use it regularly to fit tenons.  In fact, I can't imagine trying to cut a tenon to the correct size off the saw.  I like the fact that the iron is wider than is customary on the shoulder planes.  For my usage, there is not enough shoulder to register a shoulder plane to anyway.  I do have an older Stanley 192 which also works well.  There is not that much to it.  Fettling it was quite a quick process.  I don't think it has any special value as an antique.

   Alan

1. 
   creekwood | Jun 25, 2003 08:34pm | #6

   Thanks for the thought. I'll keep that in mind.

4. 
   Mackwood | Jun 25, 2003 09:37pm | #7

   Creekwood,

   I've been looking at lots of planes on e-bay and other sources.  The cost of the old ones (good ones) is even more ridiculous than the price of the LN or Clifton.  Take the advice of one who has learned the hard (expensive) way; buy the best you can afford.  You'll never regret it!  As Ben Franklin said, "quality is the only true economy!

   Enjoy!

   Mack

1. 
   creekwood | Jun 25, 2003 10:18pm | #8

   Thanks, Mack. I agree. That's what I've done so far, and I've not been sorry. I've seen E-bay, also.  Seems like the free market drives the prices most times. There are some deals I've seen, but most of the time the prices are comparable to anywhere else. It just brings alot into one site.

1. 
   Mackwood | Jun 26, 2003 07:17am | #18

   Creekwood,

   You're so right about the prices but also about the selection.  #98 & #99 side rabbit planes are a great example.  I can buy the very sweet LN jobs with the depth stops for under $60.00 ea at "Hardwicks" in Seattle.  The old ones on e-bay in decent shape without the depth stops go for more than that and the ones with the depth stops are close to or over $200 for the pair!  The guy who wants a quality tool has lots of options---but none of them cheap!!

   Regards,

   Mack

5. 
   JeffKurtz | Jun 26, 2003 01:30am | #11

   Those few fortunate individuals whom I know who own Lie Nielsen shoulder planes love them.  Can't go wrong.  However, for another alternative, check out Shepherd Tools, which makes a Spiers style shoulder plane which sells for a bit more than a LN costs, but considerably less if you buy it in kit form.

   http://www.shepherdtool.com/A%20J3%20PAGE%20INDEX%20PRICES.htm

   Jeff

1. 
   creekwood | Jun 26, 2003 05:59am | #15

   Thanks, Jeff. I'll take a  look at their site.

2. 
   Mackwood | Jun 26, 2003 07:28am | #19

   Jeff,

   'scuse my butt in but thanks very much for posting that link to Sheppards!!!!  Their products look awesome!!

   Regards,

   Mack

6. 
   Crunk | Jun 26, 2003 01:43am | #12

   I have a Stanley 92.  It's one of those tools that just does what it's asked to do without a lot of hoopla.  They still make them.  I'd order one and put it to work.

1. 
   creekwood | Jun 26, 2003 06:02am | #16

   I saw that, Boss, and have thought about it. But the LN just really makes my boat float. I think I'm leaning towards that. Thanks for your input.

1. 
   Crunk | Jun 26, 2003 01:53pm | #20

   You'll never go wrong buying L-N.  It's a question you already know the answer to.

1. 
   MarkRoderick | Jun 26, 2003 03:03pm | #21

   Can I ask a dumb question here, as someone who regularly cuts tenons on a radial arm saw but is now moving toward doing them by hand?

   Which part of the tenon does the shoulder plane trim? I would think the most important part to be able to trim is the thickness of the tenon, but I've always referred to this as the "cheek" rather than the shoulder. I'm thinking the shoulder is the narrow strip perpindicular to the tenon itself. Is that right? Is that the only think the shoulder plane is trimming?

   If the shoulder plane is only for trimming that narrow strip, how do you trim the thickness of the tenon? I've seen it done with a rasp - is that typical?

1. 
   eddiefromAustralia | Jun 26, 2003 03:37pm | #22

   Mark,

   Your definitions of cheek/shoulder are correct.

   The shoulder plane is used to 'tweak' the fit of the shoulder so that you get a neatly closing joint - you can use it on the cheeks as well if you want, or pare with a chisel - more accurate than a rasp.

   Cheers,

   eddie

2. 
   MarkRoderick | Jun 26, 2003 03:48pm | #23

   Thanks.

3. 
   EdHarrison | Jun 26, 2003 04:40pm | #24

   Mark,

   I'll second what Eddie (Oz) said and will add that the perfect chisel for this job is the old Stanley 720 paring chisel in the wide widths (1 1/2 inches to 2 inches). This is the big gun that is almost 14 inches long. Once you get it scary sharp, you will feel as if you can pare cheeks fiber by fiber. I have one from pre WWII that is going to have a special place in my hanging tool cabinet and all it does in life is pare tenon cheeks. I would not hit it with a mallet for all the tea in China. Bought from Patrick Leach in never used, never honed conditioned. Good luck ,Ed

4. 
   MarkRoderick | Jun 26, 2003 04:49pm | #25

   And you manage to hold it perfectly parallel to the piece so you're paring exactly the same amount across the entire width and down the entire depth of the tenon? Or at least, close enough so the glue joint is good on the whole tenon? If so, that's the way I'm going.

5. 
   EdHarrison | Jun 26, 2003 05:17pm | #26

   Pretty much. The piece is in the vice or in a hold down. I don't pare across the cheek of the tenon, but rather with the grain, like a rip cut, from the end of the tenon, in to the shoulder. Cut the shavings at the shoulder with the chisel or a marking knife. I guess its personal preference. The point of my previous post was that it is easier with a heavy, substantial piece of quality steel that is razor sharp and that you can guide with both hands. Also doubles as a pretty good weapon if your house is invaded by crazed, Clintonite, liberal ninja fighters in the middle of the night. He he. Later, Ed

6. 
   MarkRoderick | Jun 26, 2003 05:21pm | #27

   Your post illustrates the need for strong Federal chisel-control laws.

7. 
   BG | Jun 27, 2003 02:49am | #30

   OUCH !....that'll teach Ed to stray off topic....lol

   (I would have said touche..but not while Ed has that chisel)

8. 
   Mackwood | Jun 27, 2003 02:11am | #29

   Mark,

   I cut my tenons with a dado on the TS, leaving them just a tad "thick".  I use my small shoulder plane to remove the fuzz and fine fit.  It works great for me; I could use a larger shoulder plane but ----priorities $$$.  I do use a Freud 80?? tooth fine cutoff blade to do the "shoulder" cuts before wasting the bulk away with the dado.  It has to be right the first time but with that blade I don't need to fool around with the "shoulders" and the part of the tenon that is visible is dead on.  Takes a bit of extra time but I'm a hobby guy not a production wood worker.

   Regards,

   Mack

7. 
   bill_1010 | Jun 26, 2003 04:28am | #14

   I have an HNT Gordon shoulder plane and im very pleased with its results.  Its a basic wedge and iron plane.  Simple and effective. 

1. 
   creekwood | Jun 26, 2003 06:04am | #17

   Thanks, WmP for your reply. I don't know much about that one, but I will look so I can learn.

8. 
   lostarrow | Jun 26, 2003 05:46pm | #28

   creekwood-

   Throughout this discussion no one has mentioned the Record shoulder planes, the 073 & 077. I'm aware that Record no longer makes these two planes, but if I were looking for a shoulder plane and came across a good used 073 or 077 I wouldn't hesitate to go for it , depending on the price of course. I have had my pair for many years and have no complaints at all. They are heavy and the adjustments are precise, no slack in the adj. screw. You can remove the nose of the 077 and use it as a bull nose plane and the throat is adjustable. I find I use the 077 a good deal more than the 073, but occasionally on larger work I'll use the 073.

   Be not afraid of going slowly.  Be afraid only of standing still.   chinese proverb